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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ron who wrote (334116)	4/19/2017 10:17:03 AM
From: JohnM	Respond to of 542125

I was answering the question in my mind as to whether Sanders could have been a decent president. And found my self conversation with it crossed koan's Sanders' post. I haven't changed my mind on the decent president point: holds more policy positions I like than any other candidate but given his "go it alone" stance, deeply unable to translate that it into legislation.

To: Ron who wrote (334116)	4/19/2017 11:02:44 AM
From: Cautious_Optimist	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 542125

Bernie-or-nothings are still fixated in a bubble, on power (they label it "a revolution", I get it.) I would take Bernie seven days a week over current GOP knuckleheads like Cruz or Ryan or Pence. But I can name plenty of decent "pragmatic" Democrats I could support over Sander's hype. The Sanders-or-fuckyou segment believe their own rhetoric is Truth, and captures mainstream ideology -- not that differently from the right's illusions. Bernie achieved the Sainthood in his segment that Ronald Reagan has with the GOP. Interestingly, both Sanders and Trump ran as nationalists who wanted to burn down (not fix) NAFTA and TPP, as well as protectionism for jobs. I believe most immigrants come here for opportunity and hope, not Big Brother socialism or Big Brother right corporate-religio tax-the-poor fascism. And when you travel in socialist and capitalist developing and third world nations you can see why. Good, kind motivated often diverse religious people/families have so little. Things we take for granted like childhood /childbirth mortality, family starvation as well as terrible labor conditions make the US look like a shining tower. Of course there are two major differences between all the left and the GOP: First, the bumbling right right wing is in control of the federal government. The left is cornered, and lives in our circular firing squad in denial that the nation is diverse politically and idealogically from San Francisco to Kentucky to Florida . Our more radical elites live in a bubble that the masses are all hungry for pure socialism, vegetarianism and riding bicycles instead of driving cars. (Sorry if I offended you, I do not mean this personally, its my own rhetorical style.) The second is that the left has the genuine ideas to improve the country and all people's lives not some, and that (good) government needs to be funded well by fair progressive taxes. While most Democratic politicians are unfortunately engaged in fund raising as a priority - they are also the party that wants to reform the money-as-person system so long as its a level playing field. Games (including elections) are won by current rules; not the rules you would like to see. That goes for any candidate in a contested election - perhaps someone like my Congresswoman Barbara Lee who gets 90+% of the vote don't worry much about raising $$. Of course I am in my own bubble, but I'm at least trying to see outside it as most of the people here in the moderate forums are.