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To: Jack Zahran who wrote (8565)	1/7/1998 6:22:00 PM
From: Josef Svejk	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 31646

Humbly report, Jack, another example from someone who knows: Subject: Re: Embedded Systems From: jhenshaw@teleport.com (Jeff Henshaw) Date: 1998/01/02 Message-ID: <34b09745.874147417@news.teleport.com> Newsgroups: comp.software.year-2000 [More Headers] Article Segment 1 of 2 (Get All 2 Segments) JM <mizski@hotmail.com> wrote: >If there are any embedded systems experts here, I'd be appreciative if >you'd give me your analysis of the following copy... I dunno whether I'd bill myself as an expert, but I've got 20 years of experience in embedded systems, so I'll take a shot. > First let's define what's an embedded system. An embedded system > is a small computer-based system that controls the operation of a > device (electrical or mechanical), or a motor, or a bunch of > input sensors. A walkman or a TV can be considered as embedded > systems also but let's concentrate here about industrial embedded > systems only. Well... no. It's ok as a first approximation, but there's a lot of ES (I'm too lazy to keep typing Embedded Systems) that have no moving parts. Just finished a telephone application, minimum of 29 processors per box, inputs are T1 lines and the outputs are POTS phone lines - no moving parts. > A typical embedded system receives inputs from sensors and its > output is triggered by an event. Lets take the example of a > sawmill. OK, but I'm gonna snip large chunks of the example. > So where is the date > used? Only in the control panel computer where the accounting, > inventory, and report are generated. Do the embedded systems need > to know about date? No, obvioulsly. Everything inside those > embedded systems are running on clock ticks, not on clock time or > date. Industrial apps have amazing safety requirements. I've never worked on a sawmill, but something as obviously dangerous as a giant saw will have lots of "required maintenance" issues. How long has it been since unit X received its weekly/monthly/whatever maintenance? If it's past the required date, it won't start and will flash an alarm to the central controller. Mechanical sensors require calibration. You have to sense the speed of log travel and adjust it based on how well the saw is cutting (big knots slow things down), etc. When you're talking about a 6 foot saw blade breaking and throwing high speed steel all over the floor, you can bet the whole durned thing is setup to shut down if any component is past its calibration/maintenance date. > Then there are may be a few other classes of embedded systems > where the operation is based on the clock time, and the time and > date are maintained locally for redundancy. For instance, the > article posted by XXXXXXXX described embedded systems for > load dispatch or remote switchyard inside an electric utility > that perform certain function at a predetermined time schedule. > Those kind of systems are rare and account for may be less than > 5% of all embedded systems. On what do you base the declaration that "these kinds of systems are rare"? I'll buy that it may easily be less than 5%. Call it 1% if you like. How many ES are out there? Easily a couple orders of magnitude more than there are mainframes & PCs put together, even after you subtract the zillions that are date-irrelevant consumer products. A company I used to work for sold manufacturing equipment to Intel. 10 years ago, they told me that the microcontroller group outsold the PC group by over 100 to 1. That'll help give you a feel for the size of the ES market, and the number of them out there. Especially when you remember that Intel's first product, the 4004, was an embedded processor used as a calculator. They've been building microcontrollers for 25 years, long before they got rich building PC stuff. > That's why we don't hear much about Y2K problems in embedded > systems. All of the Y2K contracts announced so far are on the > mainframe side and in the business software. XXXX has won several > contracts with utility companies and they are all for mainframe > code remediation. x8.dejanews.com Svejk (GL-15 applies: digiserve.com ;-)

To: Jack Zahran who wrote (8565)	1/7/1998 9:08:00 PM
From: Judge	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 31646

Jack, this was very interesting reading -- can you provide a link? Many thanks. Cathleen

To: Jack Zahran who wrote (8565)	1/8/1998 12:18:00 AM
From: richard peterson	Respond to of 31646

<<< At the Keystone Power Plant, located in Shelocta, PA, they have miles of underground conveyors that travel through old deep coal mine shafts to deliver tons of coal to the generators that supply NYC, New Jersey, and parts of Delaware with their power. Down the road, the Homer City Power Plant, located near Homer City, PA, also relies on miles of deep conveyors to send power to the same customers. These conveyors are NOT manually operated: there is no troll that stands there, watches the coal whiz past, and adjusts the speed according to the wishes of the plant operators. The conveyors are controlled by embedded systems that receive instructions from the control room operators, measure the actual rate of flow versus the desired rate of flow, and adjust their operations accordingly. Near Sagamore, PA, is the Keystone Dam, a 4 mile by 1/4 mile man-made lake that supplies the KPP with cooling water. The flow of water to the plant, though several miles of underground pipes and valves, is controlled by embedded systems, as is the operation of the dam's floodgates and sluices. There are hundreds of controller boards involved. No one has gone down and checked these boards for compliance.>>> Jack, I actually work at these power plants for the co. that maintains them and is part owner. On monday I e-mailed our y2k compliance person about the embedded chip problem. I asked him if this was a problem, his reply was that it is definitly a problem. Right now our EE's are on it and along with the chip vendors.I asked if they had sought outside help yet and he said no. When asked if it was a big job, he said they were everywhere. Just a little info, hope it helps! Dick