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To: Glorieux who wrote (18217)	8/7/2017 12:22:13 AM
From: the Chief	2 Recommendations Recommended By Edwinder12 GrumpyGus Respond to of 22811

You dug into the costs? Thats interesting because I am really not sure you know it but you do not have a Flow Sheet yet. You can dig into a 2 year old filler flow sheet, but you can't dig into real numbers or any numbers even close. The thing that quite honestly amazes me is you actually think that Graphite mines will even feed Graphene to anyone? If the margins are as good as you say, why would a person dig a 300 foot hole if all he has to do is use his NG pipe, or his Corn field or Soybean Oil etc etc etc etc? Any margins worth capturing will be captured by people who can do it with less infrastructure. By the time you get anywhere near Developement you have to "Sell a BFS to a bank, that's where your problems or for that matter ANY Graphite facilities problem stat if they are relying on Graphene as a market. I have no idea how many tonnes you think the world can handle of Graphene a year but I can absolutely asure you the market will be flooded even if you can double your money when selling it. So it becomes a strategy of economics, do I spend $600,000,000 or more, I think it will be closer to $1billion by the time 4 years from now arrives, and add in the equipment to take the graphite to graphene. Or do I just buy the equipment equivalent and stick it in an industrial park or a Corn Field Barn? I realize you have to keep the pump going and I hate to burst your bubble but AE better start focusing on Practical applications or you will be dead before you get to the PFS. Here is your other problem. Projected demand for Graphene will be about $500million by 2025 Now of course your response will be it will be alot more than that. Actually it probably will peak out at $500million because the price will plummet thereby changing the actual delivered tonnes. ie $500million when talking $800US a kilo amounts to "X" tonnes delivered If the price falls as I anticipate than $20 a Kilo amounts too 40X tonnes delivered. So now, you would have us believe that ZEN or any other graphite mine will provide a lot of it, that's where your flaw is, because it will supply none, of it or be a small subset of what it produces, if Jordan can fix your problems.

To: Glorieux who wrote (18217)	8/7/2017 12:25:40 AM
From: Fact Czecher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 22811

*I CALL BULLSHT Glorieux posted (#18217 on this board): "So our input cost to make graphene is $0.002 per gram." This is as ridiculous as you thinking substituting the word "carbon" for "graphite" in a previous post made it accurate. It is right up there with some of your earlier posts "Nuclear and isotropic right out of the ground". "I suspect we will know within a few months as they will have to fast track ZEN to have product by summer 2017. " "Production in 2018...But the bashers said 2021 at the earliest?? ROTFLMAO!" Provide some third party verification that shows that ZEN's "input cost to make graphene is $0.002 per gram." or admit that it is straight speculation on your part with ZERO independent data to back it up. What is the cost of the chemicals that are required to convert graphite to graphene? - YOU DON'T KNOW. Using an insider source that has falsely claimed "production in 2018" and "we don't use acid" and "no metallic impurities" and "no metallurgy issues" and "PFS will be completed in 2017"** will not be sufficient for any potential investor or anyone else who is smart enough to tie their own shoes.

To: Glorieux who wrote (18217)	8/7/2017 1:39:21 AM
From: NuclearCrystals	Respond to of 22811

Francis, have you requested the BGU data from Strazdins, if so, did it include the costs they published in a presentation and then quickly ripped off?

To: Glorieux who wrote (18217)	8/7/2017 8:33:18 AM
From: cbs12311	2 Recommendations Recommended By I_C_Deadpeople Mister D Respond to of 22811

Hi Mike,thank you for your link to Cambridgenanosystems.com, very interesting site.The cheapest way to buy graphene from them is by buying 100g at a time and then your price per gram is $40-60. From the research that ZEN has gotten publish, it has special attributes for dispersion that make it unique. Both BGU and Sussex are on the record that ZEN's graphite was the only one they ever tested that could disperse properly (in concrete and rubber) and this made it a high value material. Now, because of these unique characteristics, I never really looked at the economics of the project as much as I should have. Why bother if we are the only able to achieve such a superior performance? We will always be able to command a premium if we offer a superior performance.However, between the data you provided, the Mr Pigeon exposing himself as a brain damaged case, I really dug into the numbers lately. In the PEA, ZEN could produce 99.9% graphite at a cost of $2046 per tonne. Let's call it $2000 per metric ton to make things simple.So our input cost to make graphene is $0.002 per gram. Now, the cost all in to have this processed to graphene is $0.02 per gram, or 2 cents per gram. This number came from the ZEN presentation that was pulled after it was put up by mistake. Could be off but that is $20,000 to process a ton of graphite by sonication, seems reasonable to me. So now, let's imagine the price of graphene falls off a cliff between now and when ZEN is in production. Let's say the price falls a dramatic 99% from the current price of $40 to only $0.40. Since our cost is $0.02, that means that even after a 99% price drop, we would still have a 2000% margin.Let me repeat that: After the price of graphene falls 99% from the prices of today, ZEN would still be enjoying a 2000% margin on its product.So, thank you Mike and Mr Pigeon, it has now become even clearer to me how stupid valuable ZEN is. Most companies are happy being able to dominate the market by either having a better product or by being able to under cut their competition on price.ZEN will be in the enviable position of both offering a superior product to anything out there and be able to crush the market on price. This certainly explains why AE is not worried about money or anything else. The margins ZEN will be able to achieve are more than ridiculous. If we could manage to command $1 per gram, that would be equivalent to $1 Million per ton and the current market is $40-60 IF you buy in 100g increments!!! I finally agree that Musky is not exaggerating. Sorry it took me this long to see the light Musky but you have been right all along. Excellent post G, when I saw the Cambridge prices I realized how profitable ZEN can be, and remember Cambridge Graphene can't even compare in quality with ZEN's!! Limited usage per their website: CamGraph G1 is our premium graphene grade material, consisting of approximately 70% single layer graphene flakes. G1 is the best for electrical properties, conductive inks for instance. It is currently available in two densities – Density A (30 ± 4 g/L) and Density B (20 ± 2 g/L). No wait I will wait for Radio Shack Flyer LOL

To: Glorieux who wrote (18217)	8/7/2017 9:25:01 AM
From: Mike Hardy	1 Recommendation Recommended By Gilmar1 Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 22811

Glorieux That very well may be the case.The main reason I brought up Cambridgenanosystems was to show that graphene technology is growing and expanding at incredible speeds.By the time zen goes into production, what if some company finds a carbon material that can mimic zens characteristics? Here's some more info on the graphene industry graphenetracker.com Graphene is a form of carbon, which is sometimes derived from graphite ore and sometimes synthetically synthesized. Graphite ore is dug in mines. To obtain graphene from graphite ore, one needs to perform another manufacturing step, for example liquid phase exfoliation or another chemical “exfoliation” procedure. “Exfoliation” is a term that describes the breaking of bulk graphite ore into its constituent graphene layers. With chemical exfoliation, one typically obtains “dirty” graphene, which is not actually pure graphene but rather graphene attached to other chemicals or to other graphene layers. A popular process to synthetically make graphene is chemical vapor deposition (CVD) of graphene onto another material. CVD does not require graphite ore, as it uses various gases as precursors to graphene. CVD tends to result in nice clean layers of graphene, most commonly marketed to scientific researchers, although the method has been gaining popularity among microchip and display manufacturers. At this stage, the graphene is in the form of a piece of material waiting to be sculpted for the desired application. The next step is to process the graphene into a component, such as an electronic transistor, or a very strong fiber, before integrating the component into the final product, like a mobile phone or a bulletproof vest. A sketch of the basic route of graphene from the source to the product is shown in the following figure.