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Politics : Liberalism: Do You Agree We've Had Enough of It? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: TimF who wrote (201901)9/3/2017 1:47:11 PM
From: TimF3 Recommendations

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Investor Clouseau
Stock Puppy
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  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 224724
 
Why is wealth accumulation so unfair under capitalism?
9 Answers ]https://www.quora.com/Why-is-wealth-accumulation-so-unfair-under-capitalism
Selected answers -

Tim Worstall, former Journalist
Answered Jul 6 · Upvoted by Franklin Parker, works with very wealthy families

It isn’t. What near everyone fails to grasp is that it is the consumer who gets most of the wealth produced. Try this paper:

Schumpeterian Profits in the American Economy: Theory and Measurement

The entrepreneur gets to keep some 3% or so of the total wealth produced by their innovation. Near all of the rest goes to consumers as the consumer surplus.

Or this from Jason Furman:

mackinac.org

Sure, the Walton family have $100 billion or so. That’s the capital sum, the once off amount. Consumers save $260 billion a year from the existence of Walmart. Over 30 years, a reasonable time to think of, the Walton’s have $100 billion, the rest of us near $8 trillion.

Can’t see that as being unfair myself, in fact I think it’s an absolute bargain for us.

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Ed Frey
Answered Jun 28

That doesn’t feel like the right way to ask the question. Under democratic capitalism, opportunity to accumulate wealth is very fair. Unlike other economic systems, everyone gets that opportunity. If you try, you will have the opportunity to improve your economic situation and accumulate wealth.

Some people have been blessed with gifts to make money better than others. These gifts include initiative, determination, ability to motivate others, willingness to take risks, willingness to save, etc. It may look easier for these people, but to succeed they still have to try.

Starting with money is no guarantee of continuing success. Wealthy children struggle. How many stories can you recollect of family fortunes being lost by the second or third generations?

Some people are just struggling now and will do better in the future, because they take advantage of opportunity. Classic American immigrants (and our current illegal immigrants) fit this case. They work hard, scrimp and save, send their children to college and their children/families succeed. This is a good measure of wealth. The founders of Uber shared rooms, lived on ramen noodles, scrimped. They are doing much better now.

Others struggle because they don’t try to overcome their current situation. Many are convinced that they can’t, so they give up and hope someone will take care of them. Our current political and social narrative supports this perspective, so it’s easy to believe it.

If I could change one thing in America today, I would bring back the hope and belief of the time exemplified in Horatio Alger stories. At this time in American history, everyone had hope of succeeding by their own efforts and didn’t expect others to take care of them.

…and they succeeded. The American Century was the product of a lot of people trying to do better for themselves,, and it worked.

So the opportunity to accumulate wealth in a capitalistic economy is not unfair. The fact that some people see better results than others is not unfair, it’s just life.

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Robert Collier, OPS Manager of 120ppl, Real Estate and Stock Investor, Broker Retired at 45

Answered Jun 28

I would argue it is the fairest system ever devised. Fact statistics state that over 80% of the millionaires and billionaires in the US are first generation. For every hard luck story out there, there’s a story of someone dealt a more difficult hand and won with it…only in a system such as this can it happen.

If what you stated were true then you could give all the poor all the wealth of the rich and it would stick as a 180degree turn of fortune. We all know that the situation would turn back to the original fortune makers for it is the decisions of the person that makes the difference.

It is why lotto winners and young sports stars are soon broke while entrepreneurs and business owner’s that maxed out credit cards and worked ungodly hours to get where they are today could do it again.

There are only 4 things that a person needs to do to have a 95% certainty of staying out of poverty and those are - don’t get addicted to a substance, do get a High School level education, don’t have children out of wedlock and do get a job.

I know from which I speak intimately as I am from a single mother scenario who could not afford my college (not that I had good enough grades anyway)and we at a whole lot of tv dinners. I started out bussing tables and just had my foot to the floor ever since. The person in the mirror every morning was held accountable for all my successes and failures with no other excuse. I work now out of habit and enjoyment but if it were all gone tomorrow I could do it again. No other system anywhere can you say that about…good luck

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Rusty Pang

Answered Jun 29

Your question assumes two faulty premises:

Wealth accumulation is only unfair in capitalism societies.There is an economic model that is fair to compare to.Let me tackle these two in order.

Capitalism is an economic model of free exchange. Meaning, in capitalism there is no third party influencing or restricting the exchange. In this model it is impossible for it ever to not be fair for each person only completes the exchange when they are better off for doing so. The employee commits his labor because he values the values the employer’s money over his labor. The employer values the labor over his money. So long as employment is voluntary, it is always fair.

Some may say that minimum wage is too little for the employee’s labor and the employer is taking advantage of the employer. This can never be so because the employer can choose to quit and work for someone else. No one is forcing that person to work for the company.

The second assumption you made is that there is a better model we can use as a standard to judge capitalism by. Show me the evidence of any economic model that has proven induced more wealth for a society than a capitalistic one. World history is filled with many more examples (feudalism, socialism, caste, etc). None of these have produced the upward mobility we have seen in our economic model.

30 years ago, we were using AOL dial-up and blown away by 56.6 kbs download speeds. Today, we have the entire world accessible from our fingertips.

50 years ago, we marveled about advanced refrigeration and color television. Today, we have higher resolution screens that, if not 4k, we consider old technology. I remember having to get up from my couch to change the station with a knob and there were only 4 channels.

America does not worry about famine. We probably induce more food today than ever in human history. So much food is produced here, that we export millions of tons of it to other nations. It’ascertainly not perfect, but we don’t really know starvation. We think we understand it, but no one in America is dying from starvation.

Capitalism is not unfair. In fact, it is as impartial as the waves of the sea. If one does not learn how to ride the wave and drowns, do we blame the wave?

quora.com



To: TimF who wrote (201901)9/3/2017 1:51:48 PM
From: TimF1 Recommendation

Recommended By
TideGlider

  Respond to of 224724
 
A Child Understands the Fall of the Wall
David Henderson
November 7. 2009

As Bryan has mentioned, Monday, November 9 will be the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall. In Chapter 3 of my book, The Joy of Freedom: An Economist's Odyssey, I tell that story and integrate it with my recollections of explaining my excitement back then to my 4-year-old daughter, Karen.

I wrote most of the book between 1998 and 2001 and, for the passage about Karen, went from memory. But a year ago, while cleaning out stuff in my home office, I found a diary I kept occasionally about Karen when she was younger. I had written this passage on November 29, 1989, when my memory of what had happened earlier that month was much fresher. Here it is:
On Friday morning, November 10, I came into Karen's room while Rena [my wife] was waking her up and told her [Rena] all excitedly about the Berlin Wall coming down.

A couple of days later, when the new Newsweek came out with a cover story on the Wall, I decided to try to explain to her [Karen] what was going on. It was one of those significant events I really wanted her to understand, and I thought I could do so without prejudicing her but simply by telling her the facts.

I told her that the Wall was built to prevent people from leaving a certain area and that it was built when I was a young kid. If people tried to climb over it without permission, I told her, the men who built it shot them and tried to kill them. "That's not nice," said Karen. "That's rude.

"But, I told her, the people who built it decided that it was wrong to stop people from leaving. And now I'm excited, I said, because they can leave. Then I showed my excitement. I said, "Now they can do things that they've always wanted to do like, like . . ." "Go to Disneyland!" said Karen. "That's right," I said. "And they can go to stores and buy neat things they haven't been able to buy like . . ." "Candy!" shouted Karen excitedly. "That's right!" I said. "Oh, boy!" [My notes don't make clear who said "Oh, boy!"] We got all excited together.

I think the two things she focused on are things that the Berliners really would think of first. (The media reported a few days later that the candy shops in West Berlin had sold out.) And by putting it in her terms, Karen understood a lot of the excitement and importance of the event.
econlog.econlib.org



To: TimF who wrote (201901)9/8/2017 3:28:38 PM
From: TimF2 Recommendations

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John Carragher
TideGlider

  Respond to of 224724
 
Soviet Shoes
David Henderson

I mentioned in Tuesday's post that one of my favorite passages from Scott Shane's Dismantling Utopia is the passage about shoes. Commenter Bill asked me for the passage. Here it is:
My informal survey suggested that some of the longest lines in Moscow were for shoes. At first I assumed that the inefficient Soviet economy did not produce enough shoes, and for that reason, even in the capital, people were forced to line up for hours to buy them. . . . Then I looked up the statistics. I was wrong. The Soviet Union was the largest producer of shoes in the world. It was turning out 800 million pairs of shoes a year--twice as many as Italy, three times as many as the United States, four times as many as China. Production amounted to more than three pairs of shoes per year for every Soviet man, woman, and child.

The problem with shoes, it turned out, was not an absolute shortage. It was a far more subtle malfunction. The comfort, the fit, the design, and the size mix of Soviet shoes were so out of sync with what people needed and wanted that they were willing to stand in line for hours to buy the occasional pair, usually imported, that they liked.
And now the "money" paragraph:
At the root of the dysfunction was the state's control of information. Prices are information--the information producers need in order to know what and how much to produce. In a market for a product as varied in material and design as footwear, shifting prices are like sensors taped to the skin of a patient in a medical experiment; they provide a constant flow of information about consumer needs and preferences. When the state controlled prices, it deprived producers of information about demand.
Later, Shane writes, "Indeed, the factory's real consumer was the state, not the consumer." He goes on to say, "The shoes Soviet industry produced might end up in a landfill, but comrade, it could produce shoes."

Incidentally, he begins the chapter, "What Price Socialism? An Economy Without Information," with the following Soviet joke from 1988:
Customer in Meat Store: Miss, can you slice 100 grams of ham for me? Saleswoman: Certainly, citizen, if you bring me the ham.
econlog.econlib.org

Liam writes:
This reminds me of another Soviet joke on this topic.

A Russian goes to buy a new car and pays all the money up front (as was the norm) and then is told by the sales person to come back in exactly 5 years to pick up his new car. So he asks, "In the morning or the afternoon?" and the sales person says, "What difference does that make?" and the the man replies, "In the morning the plumber will be coming to fix the toilet."

econlog.econlib.org