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To: Jerry Olson who wrote (32734)	1/10/1998 3:58:00 PM
From: ViperChick Secret Agent 006.9	Respond to of 58727

OJ... You said it, in a very simple way........:>} well I am glad you can finally see that program trades do effect you and me " it won't effect you or me...because most of these trades happen intraday..." From Pat: What matters is that you 'predict' where they are and position yourself that way. On the other hand, if you are long (for example) and believe you can predict the programs will be sells then bail. btw from you: "large disparity of the cash and futures you'll automatically see a buy or sell porgram, because the market will move quickly one way or the other...I mean minutes... " This is one of the points OJ I have seen numbers hit...such as Camp's actual and kevins theortical for sell programs...and even be a point underneath there and no quick market movement...but did a sell program hit? It was beneath their numbers these are things I am trying to figure out because yes, in fact program trades do effect us..... and for those of you who still havent gotten it,,, you buy based on what the market does on a program trade.....but is that going to be the overall trend... you better know...cause if you dont and you buy a call on a buy program trade and then the market falls out from under you, you lost not only is your prem stripped out from under you from the jack up..but it is stripped because of the market fall out. Think that can't happen? this week we had a day where the market turned around dramatically. According to CNBC at the end of the day...it was a number of buy programs (although my contention still is that this is used to often as a catch-all). However, in this case it is pretty obvious that is what happened because of the sharp turnaround with the last hour of the trading day. so you buy calls because you think the market has turned around... next day..what happened to the market..do you remember?!?!?!?!?! You lost. My contention (as well as others) is the program trades make the market more difficult to trade....however, for those that can zero in on it....it can be a bonanza... WHEN USED WITH OTHER TOOLS