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To: Ronald P. Margraf Sr. who wrote (5930)	1/15/1998 3:02:00 AM
From: Rob	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116753

Ron, et al. Re: Your misconceptions on Canada OK, I couldn't stand by and let Mark bear the brunt of your misconceptions. First, If you think Mark misunderstood your earlier posts, then I suggest you review the tone of your messages before you post, as I, too was, let's say, " agitated" by your posts. I'm sure there were at least several other hundred Canadians tonight who were "agitated" behind their keyboards. If I may say so, the statement "Of course the US won't allow Canada to go bankrupt" is pretty self-righteous. I would argue that the US is in a more precarious fiscal position. Let's present some facts: the Canadian Federal Gov't according to nearly all major financial institutions/analysts will post a budgetary surplus FY98-99. The majority of the provincial gov'ts have been enjoying surpluses for a couple of years now and are paying down their debt. Canada GDP forecast growth for this upcoming year is the highest of the G7 (as forecast by the OECD). Yes, Canada does have a high debt, but it ranks about middle in the G7 (Italy is first, Japan second). The Bank of Canada has not sold gold in over a year. The Province of Ontario is in the process of a 30% Income tax CUT and the province of Alberta is poised for a similar cut. Our dollar has been sliding because the US dollar has been rising against all other currencies as capital moves to the last (supposed) safe haven. There is a global currency crisis going on. Eg Have you seen the beating the Australian dollar has been taking? Our heath care? There will always be people criticizing it, but its doing fine. You have to understand that Criticizing is a recognized national past-time. A personal healthcare anecdote: a friend of mine was diagnosed with severe heart disease early nov. He went in for bypass surgery at the end of Dec (after alternative procedures, such as angioplasty has been explored). I work as a air ambulance helicopter pilot and am in quite close contact with the health care system. Long-term or terminally ill patients here never have to face exponentially rising health insurance premiums or refusal of insurance coverage. I'll be the first to admit that our system is far from perfect, but I'll also be the first to state the same about the U.S. What bothers me is that there are some very misinformed statements being made. Understand that Canadians know a great deal more about Americans than Americans know about Canadians. That's not because "We're smarter", its because the US is a global political, military, social and economic power, and Canada is, let's say, is a tad less interesting (OK, maybe we're a global hockey power). I don't think most Americans realize the we look into your country every day and observe, through the myriad of US channels that most Canadian households receive (ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, CNBC, etc). The opposite is far from true. To quote a Canadian comic "We never have to worry about the US invading Canada because all we would have to do is remove our name off the maps and they'd never find us" Thank you for letting me stand on my soapbox. Rob

To: Ronald P. Margraf Sr. who wrote (5930)	1/15/1998 11:08:00 AM
From: Bob Tate	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116753

+Ronald P. Margraf Sr. In regards your January 14 post. Everything cost today less in US dollars : commodities, world currencies and finished goods. There is substantial inflow of foreign capital in to USA equity markets that must be purchased in US dollars. There was a picture in Toronto Star of Indonesian Prime minister's relative exchanging $50,000 US in to local currency. But most of it other way around. Canadian government unloaded their gold 10 years ago over 5 years period. Gold. In regards to gold I increasingly believe there is a lot to blame mining companies who hedged - sold most of their future gold production forward. In the meantime they flooded market with gold. This sold gold is not physical gold. We all hear about physical gold shortages due to high demand. Most of physical gold today does not come from mines but from banks. Since shortage of physical gold is always being reported that lends the notion there is very little coming from mines and Central Banks are not willing sellers either. There is a shortage. There are confirmed reports mining companies default on their delivery obligations and in turn must buy on spot market to compensate. Somebody suggested Miners should stop being traders and go back in to mining business. South Africa for the fact sold forward most of their production. Our North American major mining companies done the same. Barick is one of them. These boys cutting the same branch they are sitting on.

To: Ronald P. Margraf Sr. who wrote (5930)	1/15/1998 6:23:00 PM
From: Mark Bartlett	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116753

Ron, Well .... let us look at each of these tidbits one by one. <<I see signs of anger because you have miss read my posts. Your anger is well appreciated but I think you need to take it up with your elected officials.>> If I have misread our posts, then perhaps before I respond, it would only appropriate if you correct whatever it is you feel I have misconstrued. That being said, I will offer a few comments. As far as any "anger" that I have, it was more directed at what I perceived to be a racist comment from you; not your musings about some of these other issues. <<Now if you want me to give you an example of what I was referring to I will ..... Was in Yarmonth N.S. (spelling probably wrong) a couple of years ago and went into a eating establishment. The waitress was a single parent with 2 kids. Asked her about this added tax that you all have to pay for Health care, which by the way I understand is going bankrupt, stand in lines and are on a waiting list to get the care that you all think you have, asked me if I would not include the tip in the bill. I asked her why. She then began to tell me why. In turn I gave her the tip directly. Now you tell me where what you are saying is all so great. I asked her why does she put up with it and she expressed the same reasons as you. OK. Fine. If that is what you want and are willing to give up all the rest of your financial freedoms for health care go for it. >> First ... do you honestly believe that your (2 minute?) conversation with a waitress in Nova Scotia 2 years ago provides you with adequate background and detail to discuss how things operate here? In any event ... I do not know what "information" you are fed down there about our health care system - but I suspect what has happened, is a few isolated incidents have been blown all out of proportion by some lobby groups that want to maintain the status quo ... they have turned the rare event, into the every day event. Let me give you an example of how our system presently operates. Let us say that I am feeling sick - sore throat, cough, headache - I want to see my doctor (that can be _any doctor BTW, not somebody allocated to me). So, I get to the phone, make an appointment for that day and off I go. Get to the doctor's office ... likely wait an average of 20 minute to 45 minutes, depending upon how busy the day is ... in I go for my appointment (maybe 10-15 minutes for a minor ailment) .... get my prescription for whatever, and off I go to the pharmacy, get it filled and back in bed within a few hours. If I feel _really lousy, I can have a physician make a housecarl. Now ... this process is available to _anyone. Obviously in very remote areas, it is not quite that simple ... but I suppose those that those live in rural Alaska do not have a waiting physician on every street corner either. If I have a more serious problem - let us say a lump in my arm - go to GP ... he makes an appointment with a specialist .... likely wait time to appointment 2-3 weeks - depends upon where I am headed. Go to specialist - get evaluated - from there a follow-up could be within a few days to a few weeks, depending upon the seriousness of the problem. In some cases, the waits can be longer - but the critical thing to understand, is that even if I have to wait 2 weeks longer than you do, the OUTCOME of the medical intervention is the same (or better in Canada, because things tend to be caught earlier). As far as the waitress taking her tips in cash .... well, I can not really speak to that ... that's her personal decision. I do know that I personally leave my tip in cash, simply because I feel it helps to ensure the tip does get to the waitress .. that's my personal decision. >>To get to the point that you are pointing out in this post is that a governments currency and gold reserves are in relation to what they do for their sociaties. You want the freebees, you pay for them .... You tell me why you dollar is at 1.40 from 1.36. >> Does that last statement above seem like a bit of an oxymoron ... "if you want the 'freebees', you pay for them" .... well, if we are paying for them through taxes, they sure as hell are not free! Why is this a point that I hear time and time again ... it has never made any sense to me. To a degree, I believe that we are dealing with different idealogies about what health care is about. In Canada, it is considered a basic human right (much like the right to bear arms is in the US). Frankly, I do not mind paying more taxes because of that right ... because IMHO, it makes a better society. To continue .... I do not think that it is totally fair to compare a country with 300 million people to one (with a larger geographical size) with 30 million. Economies of scale are obviously going to give you an advantage in many respects. As far as your dollar vs. our dollar .... at the moment your are perceived as the "safe haven" .... Canada, as a large exporter to Asia, is obviously considered more vulnerable.... hence our dollar is lower. As far as debt goes, I do not think that (relative to size) we are that far off ... I think they are pretty close. BTW ... Canada will be running a surplus within about 12-18 months too, in case you did not know. "Of course the US won't allow Canada to go bankrupt."" This is the kind of arrogant statement that irks me ... do you truly believe that the US is that omnipotent. For crying out load, Ron - give the people of Canada some credit for their own future. <<You have to understand that natural resourse alone can't keep you from bankruptcy. >> Coming from somebody with a country that is 5.5 trillion dollars in debt ... well, enough said. <<What is your country doing about gold. Selling I believe??????>> Yep ... I wish they were not - but they have. However, relative to how much you hold vs, us - I am not sure that we are that far off in relative terms, but I stand to be corrected here. (I'd have to check the most recent numbers). Hope that answers some questions ... on to your next post <g>, MB