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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Barnabus who wrote (10788)	1/17/1998 1:06:00 PM
From: Jane Hafker	Respond to of 39621

Jack, I almost feel this discussion should not take place here. Will answer just in case one of our old friends will pop back in just to check the body count. When I was reading Lawrence, and what is it, "Experiencing the Presence of God" ? His accounts of his time in the kitchen were much akin to the Steraits of Russian, wherein their experiences have been denied as fable, of course, but precious J. D. Sallinger took it seriously and wrote a major best seller around it, Fanny and Zooie. In fact, dear Jack, I think I will re-read it. Fanny and Zooie and The Little Prince were my first pre-salvation experiences. It was as if the Holy Spirit was saying, "yes....yes....that's the general direction....now, just come a little closer, just a little closer....." It was definitely there, I just didn't recognize it, and of course just thought I was a little nuttier than everyone else having such reactions that were so uncommon to all other life experiences. But the steraites were the most fanatic of the Orthodox Russians before the horrors of l9l7, and probably were part of the world revival that went on all over in the l890s. Now, that is also interesting when you line it up with Sioux Indians under the convert Big Foot, and the converted Little THunder, perhaps the original Red Fish and others, all of whom had had immediate contact with Jesus Christ through a band of Society of Jesus Belgium missionary saints, who at that time mercifully had been separated from the Pope and actually became flaming Spirit filled men who changed that part of their world. History quickly buried it however. But I wonder how much tens of thousands of indians dancing often barefoot in the snow begging Jesus to come back and gte them kicked off the white revival a few years later. Interesting stuff, can't prove it of course. But on Brother Lawrence, interestingly, most of the great saints we read about were not street people or vagrants of their time. There was a tremendous influx from the upper classes who gave away everything and entered places as far as possible from humans just to be with God and not get murdered by the Roman Church as heretics. I don't think Lawrence was the time of Francis. Must have been way earlier? And up in anglo territory, no? I'll look it up. I'll just let my complete ignorance show here. Think of the guys who make it big and tour the pleasure kingdoms of this world, and the devil offers them every possible fleshly experience, and they simply disintegrate more and more into drugs and alcohol and often kill themselves as it is so horribly empty. Then there's all those guys in the medievil period and other times who gave up lands and titles and horses and whatever to have nothing, did nothing, experienced nothing except apparent drugery in service to the sick or working in a kitchen cooking for others doing apparently nothing, and leave the greatest legacies of human happiness on record. Among the legacies and records of intense human happiness--that is interesting. What are they? Do they exist outside the Christian record? If so, would they be autobiographical direct writings, such as Lawrence and Teresa penned with their own hands, or would they be ancient fables, so far from historical proof it is rediculous, such as things taken from the occult studies and non-god god studies? I know of a couple of the ancient India Indian "religious" works that profess to be beautiful, but that is a man writing about what is supposed to have been said by the pagan gods speaking to each other. And leading to no god, of course, but their own human soul. So of course it was pagan, and a fabricaton of men alone. But these other writings are personal and written by the source, mainly for others seeking God through Jesus Christ. I just realized there is nothing but fiction about totally joyous and wonderful and exciting lives, except as written by Christians who were saved and spirit filled. Do you know of any others? I just can't think of a one, and it is an interesting point. Food for thought.