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To: damniseedemons who wrote (16299)	1/18/1998 9:42:00 PM
From: Daniel Schuh	Respond to of 24154

Seems to me that the only reason the DOJ has gotten on Microsoft about IE is because Netscape is a very high-profile company that has made a lot of noise about Microsoft's [anti]competitive behavior. Right, Sal. That consent decree thing was sort of a forward looking thing anticipating the rise of Netscape and the internet, and had nothing to do with the games Bill played with DR-DOS. Of course, old Anne Bingaman was pretty clueless, she thought she got something worthwhile out of Bill, but nobody else did. So, we're back to the much-traveled "just like disk defrag/Chrysler car radio" thing. Am I totally misunderstanding this? Did Microsoft give this things away as "free" upgrades to Windows licenses that had already been sold? Or, were they new features of Windows95, and presumably something you were paying for with the new software? As opposed to IE4, which looks pretty much like a disincentive to upgrade to the OS formerly known as Windows 97? Enquiring minds want to know! Cheers, Dan.

To: damniseedemons who wrote (16299)	1/19/1998 7:45:00 AM
From: Justin Banks	Respond to of 24154

Sal - So what you're saying is that Windows95 (with the GUI, utilities, etc.) is--and has always been--much much more than just an OS, right? Yup. The CD shipped is much more than an OS. Note, however, that the extra things are not part of the OS just by virtue of being on the CD. My major beef is with MSFT's outright lying by saying that IE is part of the OS, not that they ship stuff besides the OS on the same CD. Fine, but where was the DOJ when quieter companies (like Symantec, for example) got crushed because Microsoft assimilated yet another technology into Windows??? And what happens if Netscape wins...does it set a precedent for Symantec and countless other companies to sue Microsoft for integrating technologies which they would have liked to sell? s/if/when/ ;) (do you know vi, sed, or perl?) You've just succinctly made my argument as to why MSFT needs to have it's OS business separated from it's applications business. So then will "Windows2001" be an OS, in that it's a barebones OS that the consumer has to buy--and then they have to spend extra buying all the "applications" that used to ship with Windows95? Sal, regular companies trying to make a buck by shipping product actually charge for their products. To give a major application away for free in an attempt to bankrupt another company is called dumping. I do, however, agree that things like disk compression and defragmentation (only needed for stupid filesystem designs ;)), belong in the OS, as they support a key and needed OS functionality. -justinb