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To: Richnorth who wrote (6410)	1/21/1998 2:29:00 PM
From: Mark Hutnick	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 116756

Richnorth, The focus of my posting (please read again)is not the 'forgiving' part but the "never forget" part. We Christians should/would/could forgive...and I think we do. But damn us all if we 'forget' what they did to us. Like the old saying goes, '...do me once - shame on you. Do me twice - shame on me." The A-Bomb certainly is a controversial matter, but it was a result, not a cause. Japan's attack was a cause. Also if my history serves me correctly, our backs were up against the wall when we tossed the A-Bomb. If we didn't, we may be all eating sushi now. There has been an economic/monetary war between the US and Japan for several decades. Most don't want to admit it, but IMO it has been very nasty. Trade imbalances, US/Yen imbalances, look what they do with their domestic prices in order to compete with us on our own turf. I personally believe the reason we as a nation are working ourselves into the ground is because the Japanese are so damn competitive. We needed to change our social norms to stay competitive with them. They have ruined themselves and in the process they are coming close to ruining us too. We would be a much better society, economy, goverment, et al if Japan was completely out of the picture. I beleive in America (aside of all her faults) and don't need to even know the word Japan. They are a nation of vicious, over-zealous, and insane people. Iaccoca was right! A quick shift back to gold, 38 week cycles indicate that $300 is soon to be realized. In any event, nice conversing with you. Marco.

To: Richnorth who wrote (6410)	1/21/1998 10:15:00 PM
From: Surething	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116756

Hi Richnorth. Please quote your sources that say Japan was "already on the verge of surrendering" prior to the Atom Bomb attacks. In all the historical articles and books I have read on the subject the debate about Bombs centred on the civilian destruction inflicted by the Bombs versus potential military casualties suffered by American troops in a full scale invasion of Japan. The other debate was whether the SECOND bomb was necessary. Casualty estimates for US troops alone were estimated in the millions based on a land based attack of Japan. The Japanese were notorious for fighting to the last man, and this trait would surely have intensified if American troops invaded mainland Japan. And although intensive Bombing had badly damaged Japanes industry, the Japanese Leadership had made no efforts to seek peace. In fact after the first Bomb, the Japanese vowed to fight on. The second Bomb was the deal closer. Casualties from the two Bombs were in the hundreds of thousands. Casualties on both sides from a full scale invasion could have been in the millions. Good thing it never happened... But hey we are all buddies now. Surething

To: Richnorth who wrote (6410)	1/21/1998 11:04:00 PM
From: Bill Grant	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116756

Richnorth, You say Japan was on the verge of surrender. What is your source for that? Truman claims to have made the decision to drop the bomb based on an assessment that Japan was not close to surrendering, and that a prolongation of the war at that point would have cost a huge continuing body count on both sides. Defenders of Truman's decision claim that the bombing brought the war to an abrubt end and saved a lot of American and Japanese lives.

To: Richnorth who wrote (6410)	1/22/1998 1:08:00 AM
From: Gary H	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116756

Richnorth, My first impression was to pass over this post since it was off topic, but there is one thing that hooked me, and that is your staement: <Now most of the folks in the USA are Christians, and while you will "NEVER" forget/forgive, I am sure there are many that have forgiven Japan for their attack on Pearl Harbor. IMHO, the US atom bomb attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki constituted disproportionate retaliation, and as Japan was already on the verge of surrendering, the Atom Bomb attacks were criminal, inhumane and unnecessary.> In the first place we have a community of people who believe that they believe in God, which is a far cry from actually believing. Their ungodly action actions prove the above. How many times have you heard a politican, during a speach insert the name of God to vilify his point of view. You'll run out of finger and toes. I, like you, don't believe the bombing of Nagasaki was a needed action at that particular time. The necessity of that action was for the US military to observe the results for future reference. Think lab rats. It's a terrible reference to make, but it differs little from Saddam dropping cemicals on the Curds. I would not limit these exercises to the US. The Auklands, in my estimation was an exercise in missile testing. We are, in the end the guinea pigs of governments. Do you see any corralation the manipulation of gold prices? Man, am I gonna get some flack from this. Cheers,

To: Richnorth who wrote (6410)	1/22/1998 3:22:00 AM
From: Terry Swift	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 116756

Richnorth: "Japan was already on the verge of surrender"???? "Disproportionate retaliation"??? "Criminal, inhumane, and unnecessary"??? What revisionist history drivel have you been reading? You must be between 18 and 40. You sure as hell don't know diddly about World War II in the Pacific. Japan was prepared to fight to the last man, woman, and child and were arming their women and children in preparation for the invasion of the Japanese mainland that had to happen to end the War. Conservative estimates put the number of US losses in the invasion at 250,000 minimum with a total loss of life on both sides of over 1 million. Forcing Japan to surrender via the atomic bombs saved far more lives than it took. Criminal? Inhumane? What was Pearl Harbor? Without Pearl Harbor there would have been no Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Have you forgotten... they attacked us without warning at the same time their ambassador was negotiating a resolution of the dispute between us and them over our cutoff of oil supplies because they were invading and committing genocide against their neighbors and we told them we weren't going to give them the oil to do it. Put yourself in Truman's place. You have the weapons to end the war without losing any more American lives but, instead, you launch an invasion of the Japanese mainland because you consider the atomic bombs "criminal and inhumane" so you sacrifice another 1/4 million US men. What are gonna tell the wives, children, mothers and fathers of those men? You blithering idiot! Thank God your warped logic didn't prevail in 1945. A lot of us wouldn't be here because our fathers would have been killed invading the Japanese mainland.