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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: koan who wrote (421108)	10/18/2019 11:51:49 AM
From: Wharf Rat	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 541851

War in Donbass - Wikipedia The War in Donbass is an armed conflict in the Donbass region of Ukraine en.wikipedia.org

To: koan who wrote (421108)	10/18/2019 2:02:59 PM
From: bentway	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 541851

>>notice they only took Crimea.<< You aren't keeping up: Russia has taken all the red areas:

To: koan who wrote (421108)	10/18/2019 2:47:02 PM
From: JohnM	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 541851

A few quick responses, koan. I'm not trying to change your mind; just suggesting that your argument misses many of us because it fails to take account of concrete historical events that challenge the level of generality at which you want to talk. John, you are sort of doing the same thing, IMO, equating ability and intent. The last century was not any worse than any other preceding century as far as general conflict goes. Makes my point. That case is easy to assert, hard to substantiate. But it's the details that need to be addressed to make your case. It's not the fact of violence in previous centuries; it's the level and magnitude. If, for instance, the war induced famines of previous centuries suggest the 20th is no worse, then you need some other argument to substantiate a progressive view of history. That point is simply that history is going nowhere; just as violent as before. As far as Russia invading the Ukraine, notice they only took Crimea. Russia could easily defeat the Ukraine, but modern sensibilities effected by education does not allow them to be that blatant, so they fight around the edges using proxy combatants i.e. THEY ARE RESTRAINED, as are the Iranians in Yeman. On this one, that calls for some substantiation of your notion of "restraint." One could just as easily argue it's relative power rather than a more advanced culture that kept the Russians from taking more of Ukraine. That is to say, the willingness of the NATO powers to come to Ukraine's rescue. Which partially led to Putin dabbling in European and American elections, which led to Trump's election, which led to his destructive tinkering with Ukraine, and so on. All about power rather than some sort of restraint from more and/or better education. And so on.