Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: ig who wrote (702860)	2/3/2020 8:27:03 PM
From: LindyBill	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793622

I agree with you about the virus being from a weapon's lab. But the convenience of the lab to the breakout is going to keep that theory going. Add the Chinese origin and "bang!" When I saw those pictures of Chinese bulldozers closing off roads with ramps of dirt I figured this was much worse than we were being told.

To: ig who wrote (702860)	2/3/2020 10:50:25 PM
From: skinowski	1 Recommendation Recommended By Stock Puppy Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 793622

Imho, if it’s a weapon, it’s a funny one - lethal mostly against citizens of Hubei. Mortality in Hubei is... let’s see... 414 deaths out of 13,552 confirmed cases - 3.14% Mortality in China outside Hubei and worldwide is... 0.17% — based on 7067 cases (total 20,589 minus the cases in Hubei), and 12 deaths. gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com Quite fascinating. Mortality based on confirmed cases is about 18.5 times higher in Hubei. How is this possible? The only explanation I can think of is that in Hubei they have, in fact, a huge number of mild (untested) cases - but so far, only the worst ones came to light. In other locations, OTOH, everyone who gets even a little sick - and even contacts - get tested. I’d expect that in time, the overall mortality will be far lower than what it is now in Hubei. It will be much closer to what it is throughout the rest of the world. Edit — they are updating the site real time. Just noticed - the number of deaths outside Hubei is up tp 13 - so, mortality will be a small fraction higher.

To: ig who wrote (702860)	2/5/2020 4:53:37 AM
From: sense	4 Recommendations Recommended By Hoa Hao Mevis pak73 prometheus1976 Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793622

I can address that question, with a lot of evidence already out there, if you are interested... but would still note, while doing that, that at this point the nature of the origins are much less of an issue than "what to do about it now"... Perhaps begin by considering the question in the context of two of my prior posts: Lowdown on the Wuhan Hoedown and More inputs. Read the links there for the background and context. Both of those posts I wrote on Sunday, Jan 26th. In the last one I noted:"it probably won't take very long before we see an article or two addressing the genetic evidence that's out there now... pointing out any hint apparent in the code suggesting the current virus might have been engineered." That concern was addressed on Thursday, the 30th of January, with the publication of a couple of articles by a number of the guys looking at the genetics of the new virus... with some including information about comparisons of the genetic information provided by the Chinese with the genetics of other samples collected from infected individuals. I posted about that as Update on Science Addressing the Coronavirus Origins the gist of which is this link, much of which closely mirrors a couple of my own suggestions for how to proceed in determining the origins, including testing (field trip, anyone ?) to compare with what is out there now in the wild bat population in Wuhan: On the Origins of the 2019-nCoV Virus, Wuhan, China That article contains links to the publication of other relevant articles in the medical journal The Lancet, along with lots of supporting scientific evidence validating the elements that are the authors opinions... but also a couple of NIH articles addressing other risk factors that no one is talking about. I'll summarize it as "yeah, that virus was engineered"... given as a probabilistic problem it is as a huge outlier... the genetic material for this virus having 4 separate "insertions" of what clearly are foreign sequences... stuff that doesn't belong there... making it very hard to explain how it got there... That's really not all that surprising... and its also not a proof that the engineering that was done was done as a part of direct intent in a weapons program... even if it is pretty clearly a product of research that was likely supporting weaponization efforts. Summarizing... Bats are unique in being resistant to the corona viruses. The bats get infected with them... but they don't get sick... so they are a constant source of a threat to humans as they harbor the viruses without disease in warm bat bodies where they can mutate and get dangerous. So, we study that in bats. The lab in Wuhan had on ongoing study to determine why the bats don't get sick. As part of that, it seems they "broke the rules" everyone agreed on after the North Carolina virus turned out so scary (see link in More inputs, above)... and they engineered a virus to make its impacts "worse"... as a part of testing the limits of the bats resistance or tolerance... Yes, that is stupid... and, yes, that is exactly SOME of what you would do if you were trying to make it a weapon... (there are other "features" in this particular virus also suggesting a lot MORE of what you would do to make it a weapon... that is also really scary... but not at all useful in bat research... which I will leave for later.) So, pairing up all those issues... ending with under-qualified researchers getting dangerous materials in the way they did... and doing work way above their level of qualification in a poorly managed facility... leaves you still having two primary issues, beyond that: First is... there WAS an engineered virus (viruses ?) that was created... and it shouldn't have been there... whether it was a product of "research" supporting studies on bat resistance... or if that was only a part of support for, or a cover story for, a weaponisation effort. Truth there is... the evidence is pretty damning... but you'll never get an admission from anyone about it... so the only answers likely to be had... will come from additional work being done on the origins of the genetic insertions and their unique functions in combination... studying their utility while assessing the degree in which they are limited to supporting the research goals... or have no relation to the research goals while exceeding them... so likely proving useful only in weaponising the virus. As I noted... I have identified a couple of unique issues worth addressing there... but, beyond noting how those differences ARE creating unique problems now in the epidemiology of a bug that has been let loose in the world now... not really a point in addressing that set of legal/political answers re origins a priority, instead of elucidating functions to enable countering them, while people are dying... The important point is... if you know what it is making this bug operate differently.... perhaps you can design your efforts in prevention to better correlate with the reality that exists...to help stop it. That's not just about drug or vaccine development... but about simple stuff like telling people what they have to use to wash their hands or counters with to have basic cleaning efforts be effective. The difficulties that "would make it a good weapon"... are now, for now, only "a puzzle to be solved to better enable prevention efforts in succeeding". Second, the lab in Wuhan appears it wasn't nearly good enough in its protocols to succeed in containing the products they created... unqualified people were working way above their ability, there was inadequate oversight, inadequate supervision, and substandard procedures are CLEARLY apparent in what information is publicly available about the bat research program. ZeroHedge published an article about that... naming the researcher responsible... which is why Twitter has now banned ZeroHedge for "doxxing" him... even though what they put out was his already public contact information at work... while suggesting others follow up on the questions that needed asking of him... to get important answers to important questions. An aside: Twitter is wrong in doing that. I'll write more about why later... but it boils down to the left in this country is now insisting on CREATING here the EXACT same problems as China imposed on themselves... that created this problem... and that has made them unable to solve problems like the one they have self induced now... because "curated truth" that places PC political concerns ahead of real truth telling... makes you dangerously stupid. The second point... is that it is pretty obvious that the Wuhan lab looks like a pretty risky operation... Taken all together... the most likely explanation for the outbreak is that an engineered virus was created in the lab at Wuhan (apparently created from a wild type known to have originated recently in Saudi Arabia... with no linear explanation in hand of where the Chinese got their samples of it from)... It seems it clearly was engineered intending to make it "worse" than the wild corona virus type... either for research reasons or to make a weapon... and it appears that it was allowed to escape containment... probably by accidentally infecting one of the unqualified lab workers... who probably spread it to people in the wet market on trips to buy bats for the research program. No one is talking about any known infections among employees at the lab... which you might accept as "the dog that didn't bark". Proofs ? No. But, it is fully consistent with all the evidence... and well fits ALL of the Occam's Razor type tests... as the most likely answer. Given that... a couple of links with "other" issues... A controversy emerged over claims of "HIV" genes being part of the insertions... about which I advised... "hmmm, let's wait and see about that"... but, of course, not everyone did... This by now heavily modified link still suggests something of what the first draft of that story looked like Coronavirus Contains "HIV Insertions", Stoking Fears Over Artificially Created Bioweapon The guy (Feigl-Ding) who is quoted throughout that link... has made a couple of SIMPLE, and OBVIOUS but HORRIBLE errors in his discussions of things epidemiological... so I recommend not considering him to be an "expert" in any way... and more of an opinionated idiot reaching far ahead of his skis... End this with one of my posts here... by watching the contained Youtube... Coronavirus Nightmare MUCH WORSE Than They're Telling YOU!but note I'd only validate the first part of his presentation on the Health Risk... which is very much a spot on presentation of the data and the facts... while thinking the rest of his views on the impact the virus will have on the dollar, trade, the economy, and it likely forcing an ending of the stock market bubble... is deeply flawed... even if not all of it is wrong, exactly... If you got through all of that... you now know more about the coronavirus issues than most people ever will...