To: ggersh who wrote (177139 ) 8/25/2021 2:42:01 PM From: sense Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 217758 Many Democrats were center left in the 1960's... JFK was center left... when a lot of Democrats were more conservative than northern Republicans. Far too many Republicans, today... are center left... or Atlanticist / Wilsonian / CFR old school types... adopting "team" based positions of one sort or another that may wander all over the ideological map while claiming pragmatism as an excuse for a lack of principle? Not as pragmatism is a bad thing, while lack of any commitment to principle often is ? Trump... maybe farther left as a Democrat than JFK was in some ways... or, Kennedy was further right... if both caring less about ideology than practical politics and "what works" at a given moment. Most Democrats I know won't have the capacity to understand that. JFK is still a Democrat icon... and today they wouldn't agree with him on anything ? Note how often "team sports" drives the same people into professing "willingness to fight"... for the exact same position, now, they were equally determined in fighting against just a couple of years back ? Seen that happen a lot. The parties and their politics wander that map a lot more than I do... so I try to not take them too seriously... because mostly, they're not terribly serious... Democrats today... are either right wing socialists... (ie., Big Business Chamber of Commerce Nazi's)... personality cult members... or communists in denial about that being what they are... although very many are simply deeply, deeply confused... or disturbed... as cognitive dissonance imposes increasing divisions between the reality they see... and their programming. Increasingly, they appear to be turning reality off... and will brook no debate on "facts" they believe that are thinly veiled fictions. The D's as a party have moved so far left... there's no farther left for them to go... without swimming... or, alternatively... simply identifying as and declaring themselves to be Chinese. Worse, they're no longer a truly liberal party at all... they have totally abandoned all principle for expediency... in it for the money... or in it for the power... period. The ACLU now takes ridiculous positions... advocating to go ahead and violate some people's civil rights ? It can't possibly end well... I think there are a small handful on the political left who have not yet been corrupted in that way... to abandon all principle in a reach for power... Alan Dershowitz... Glenn Greenwald... and... ??? Anyone ? The Democrats have lost their spirit and their soul... along with their minds... and it shows in the results in the places where they rule... Many today think limiting others speech is essential... and seem more than ready to engage in a genocide prosecuted against Republican "terrorists" who disagree with them ? Yeah... "Bat Shit Crazy"... and the devolution and its drivers have been easy to apprehend... The D's today tend to live in a monolithic ideological bubble... where they are unused to being meaningfully challenged... and in which there is often NO grounding to reality.... which is how you get the total insanity and social, moral and systemic decay clearly apparent in Chicago, New York, Portland, Seattle, SF, etc. Many of the urban political machines have long since wiped out actual accountability to voters and their concerns... much less awareness of their own deleterious impacts on the environment they live in... The party's unchecked drift into, and advocacy for strong social attachment to functional irrelevancy, by the glorification of their own factionalization at finer and finer scales of division in identity politics...ensures that they'll never be able to say no, to anything, and will always fail to understand, or at least, to be accepted, must profess that they fail to understand the obvious... as that most people really do not give a shit what your preferred pronouns are. It's devolved so far from any real connection to the real world... as to suggest it is a form of mass psychosis that somehow synchronizes the fetishization of neuroticism. As it turns out... it has proven to be not overly useful as primary qualifying experience when selecting those responsible for delivering success in the final evacuation in a retreat from Kabul ? Who could have guessed ? I believe it to be only the second (here's the first) instance in recorded world history, and our modern case by far the more convincing instance, in which the omphaloscopoi have elevated their art to something near enough to statecraft... that it not only influenced, but directly dictated the outcome of a war... One might call it... the first truly decisive naval engagement in world history ? Seems certain that in the parallel modern instance.... thrusting functional control of the event into "the hands of monks who were inadequately instructed and ignorant of the true "Diversity is Our Strength" teaching, the psycho-physical precepts of "Diversity is Our Strength" could produce "dangerous and ridiculous results ". That's a confusion in extremis fully true of that small minority in Democrats leadership cadres, but, I do understand, far less true of "most" average D voters... most of whom have been loyal followers and team players rather than thinkers and leaders... most having only shallow ideological convictions, if any, beyond the "I know it when I see it" type... But, as that most are unwilling to state any opinion that doesn't conform to the dictat of the lunatic fringe... the truth of what they believe really doesn't matter... since they refuse to assert it ? The few avowed centrists I've seen with the willingness to state non-conformist opinions... ignoring the occasional party outcast like Tulsi Gabbard... realize the futility... and now express their dissent as #WalkAway... or by attending a Trump Rally... and being shocked by liking it, and liking the people there. I've never been to a Trump rally... but don't find that surprising. Naturally, that's far less true of party apparatchiks... who are, with few exceptions, delusional raving lunatics... wholly disconnected from reality... occasionally trying to adopt the guise and verbiage of centrists... usually failing miserably and inviting mockery in the attempt... The odd men out... have long since abandoned hope in the Democrat Party as hopelessly, hopelessly corrupt... and many as Green Party members now... are far less blinded to the basic stupidity and fundamental dishonesty of the Democrats... As they themselves are peers of an "out" group... they're not as enlisted in or as fully committed to the Democrats drive to engage in scorched earth win at all costs tactics... not in suppression of free speech... or any actual intent to commit genocide against "terrorists"... and even recognize the abuses of the legal system in purely political prosecutions... I have family members I won't talk to about anything remotely connected to politics or opinion... because they're insane... uninformed... blind... and rapidly become completely overwhelmed by being challenged in any belief or opinion... Which is frustrating, because smart conversations with people you don't agree with are so much more fun than those in which everyone agrees... and has nothing really new to add. How Democrats have somehow instilled that deep fragility and insecurity in their own people ? I don't know... but, probably worth studying... its deeply anti-social... extra-ordinarily self-limiting... doesn't bode well for the future... It appears very much as a cult-like brainwashing, to me... with the attendant fear of offending any of the in-groups' silly sensibilities... to the point of paranoia... Quite glad I'm not a member of that club... I don't think they ever have any fun ? Mostly seem old, tired and angry... Professing to be the most surfically tolerant people ever... while mortally hating the out group and wanting to kill them all... seems an obvious enough source of mind corrupting cognitive dissonance... ? But, I get along just fine with a couple of Green Party friends... while agreeing with them on almost nothing in relation to political economy... but disagreeing very little on issues of basic fairness. law and order, etc., and, on those issues... they'll listen carefully to learn what points of difference do exist in the divisions between us... Democrats don't listen... and they'll end up understanding we're not that far apart... in what we believe is good... if different what what we believe is a viable path to get there ? Democrats... in my RECENT experience... are mostly not the same patient, deeply thinking animals at all... Granted a very narrow sample size and all that... I'm not out conducting polls on street corners... but, mostly... they seem about as grounded and in control of their political lives now... as Joe is of Evac... ? I don't know how much is just that Trump Derangement Syndrome is real... and how much of it is that they're apparently somehow addicted to it... or maybe... not handling the virus thing well ?