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Technology Stocks : MSFT Internet Explorer vs. NSCP Navigator -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Charles Hughes who wrote (17086)	2/5/1998 11:20:00 AM
From: K. M. Strickler	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 24154

You have made some really good points here! What about Developer Tools! Doesn't it anger you 'just a taint' when you buy program or 2 for 'full price' only to find them in a 'suite' later, highly discounted? You had to buy the software because of a project that needed your immediate attention, while the discounted 'suite' showed up later. You might try getting a reseller number and buy NFR (Not For Resale) packages through someone like MERISEL (1-800-MERISEL) at a substantially reduced price. I have been able to get most everything except Back Office and Visual Suite. You have to have a tax number though. The documentation for Visual Suite was delivered on a CD-ROM. (I like books though, although more expensive, you can be 'open' to more than 'one' place at a time, instead of printing out the reference.) The other question I would have on the upgrade, is how much is 'new' versus how much is 're-released'? The programs are now 'monstrous' and how would you know the new stuff? (I know they give you a list, but is this 'all' of it or just what 'they' think is important?) I don't know about MS Mail as I don't use it, but I agree that it should work with the upgrade. The problem with the archives is extremely disturbing, and I can relate to the 'costs' other than software! As for the costs of 'real' support, I agree with you on the 'creep' of prices. How about the $195 charge per incident? You better be working on something that is paying for that call! Unfortunately, without some of the charges, (I don't know what the level should be), you will have customers calling up to find out how to turn the computer on! I guess we are just 'renting' the software until the next release! I still like the power that I now enjoy, that I didn't have in the past! Thoughts? Ken

To: Charles Hughes who wrote (17086)	2/5/1998 11:38:00 AM
From: Reginald Middleton	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 24154

<What about developer tools. Today I have to pay 500 bucks a year just to get docs and sample code and libraries that are part of windows. That is sure worse than the 0 amount I used to pay for this service. The C++ compiler used to be a couple hundred bucks. It costs me more than that to upgrade now.> Development tools have never been cheaper in inflation adjusted dollars. Take a look at the whole offering. Do you really mean to tell me that Visual Studip 97 has not dropped the proce of development tolls dramatically?

To: Charles Hughes who wrote (17086)	2/5/1998 1:14:00 PM
From: nommedeguerre	Respond to of 24154

Chaz, >>What about developer tools. Today I have to pay 500 bucks a year just to get docs and sample code and libraries that are part of windows. That is sure worse than the 0 amount I used to pay for this service. How true it is. My friend has a 70-CD developer's kit from Microsoft which he claims cost $7000! Somehow I have this feeling that most of those CD-s contain examples of how to work around the "known issues" in the Windows development cycle. >>The C++ compiler used to be a couple hundred bucks. It costs me more than that to upgrade now. And by the way, even if I want to use somebody else's editor, and somebody else's class library, I don't have the option of not taking the bundled microsoft equivalents (any more.) Yeah, but when you figure the cost of pumping all that air into those "boxes of air and a CD-ROM" has probably risen every year, it probably works out. It must be these hidden costs we pay for... >>So please don't tell me about all the efficiencies. I'm sick of shelling out thousands of dollars just because my old stuff is magically no longer compatible. I'm sick of developer upgrade prices for bloated maldesigned tools that are higher than the price I paid originally. I'm sick of having to pay them to debug their software just because they own the game. Amen brother, tell it like it really is. >>IBM used to say out front they were just renting you the software. Microsoft has you on the same treadmill but calls it a sale. No its not a sale, because you do not really own anything. Substitute "EULA" for "RENT" in the old IBM contracts and it probably reads the same. Cheers, Norm