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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Cautious_Optimist who wrote (480880)	10/6/2021 12:45:16 PM
From: Cogito Ergo Sum	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 540784

I already answered the positive effect the US made at small expense say compared to the Vietnam debacle ? People die.. it is sad... dying for nothing is a travesty .. I do not fear death ... I fear a life of no meaning and yeah I plan to die broke :) US was making a huge positive effect in Afghanistan .. yes only in the cities... but tit was a start

To: Cautious_Optimist who wrote (480880)	10/6/2021 2:08:53 PM
From: cosmicforce	Respond to of 540784

>>What method of foreign interference has the most positive outcome? That sort of depends upon a few things - who is measuring, over what time scale, etc. IMO - counterinsurgencies tend to become big, public, and expensive in both monetary and diplomatic cost - with low success rates. Having a shit-stirrer "fall down the stairs" is cheap as are "random street crimes" not traceable to the acting agents (Read: "the USA"). Seldom are the problems in a country due to one actor, but rather a set of operating principles. For instance: "fixing Jihadist problems" is a fool's errand (IMO) because the game is stacked against us - who in the Muslim world has the influence and a compatible social agenda that would be aligned with ours? Once upon a time, it was Turkey. The Saudis and other kingdoms not so much because they rely upon tacit tolerance of religious extremes to help keep power. Turkey has become more authoritarian. They wanted to join the EU at one point, but that has stalled. Nowadays, they are a pretty ugly ally to have on one's side. Violence begets violence - so if anyone goes down that path - the "trend is NOT your friend". Carrots are in general better than sticks. We seem in short supply of carrots these day.

To: Cautious_Optimist who wrote (480880)

10/6/2021 3:37:12 PM

From: koan

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Maple MAGA

Respond to of 540784

The generals wanted to leave 2,500 troops in Afghanistan to keep the Taliban under control.

Three primary problems will arise out of our leaving:

1) Will be the terrorization of 38 million people, especially women, and pervasive starvation, including of a million children starving to death this winter according to the UN.

2) We no longer have the intelligence system we did to prevent terrorism and the generals say it will be on the rise.

3) They will be the drug kings of the world, and the primary exporter of opium in the world.

<,

Everyone agrees that the Taliban is horrible. As are Jihadis terrorizing African nations all these years.

The question is what the modern open imperfect democracies of the world should do about it.

What method of foreign interference has the most positive outcome? Military occupation and enforcing police states to delay civil wars do not seem to work out either.

I doubt anyone here isn't heartbroken for the state of human rights in Asia and Africa, right now the focus is understandably on Afghanistan.

I remain open minded for specific ideas and the metrics of their success.

“Complaining about a problem without posing a solution is called whining."
--Teddy Roosevelt