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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Grainne who wrote (17496)	2/6/1998 4:08:00 PM
From: Kid Rock	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

<<Thomas Jefferson had a lover, and Franklin Roosevelt died in the arms of his mistress, something not passed along to the public for years. >> clipped from Katz@Wired. Is this true?

To: Grainne who wrote (17496)	2/6/1998 4:23:00 PM
From: Jacques Chitte	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

If Saddam had been assassinated, we would be in the real diaper pail. I think George knew that taking out his old buddy Saddam would lead to his replacement by maybe someone intent on a policy of rapprochement with Iran. Now we simply can't have that. So George left Saddam in the palace, hoping that he'd get the message. Now we're finding that Saddam is really good at pushing the boundaries of his assigned place (for lack of a better term) in a sustained and determined manner. So - our illustrious leaders are forced to ignore the nubile junior staff and tend to their little discipline problem. Better to send over the occasional flight of B-1s to spank our boy than have someone ideologically unacceptable take the helm. Like in Cuba or Nicaragua. (The spell checker rejects "Saddam". I wonder about "Khomeini" or "Guevara". I know - "Marcos"!)

To: Grainne who wrote (17496)	2/9/1998 12:38:00 PM
From: Father Terrence	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Good-morning Christine, My response to your response about my response to John Carroll's response to the prospects of a military response to Saddam's response. (You can't say I'm not responsive!) THE POINT IS THAT OTHER NATIONS--SOME OF THEM QUITE UNRELIABLE AND UNSTABLE--HAVE THESE, BUT WE ARE NOT GEARING UP FOR WAR WITH THEM. SECONDLY, THERE IS A LOT OF SUPPOSITION, NOT ABSOLUTE FACT, ABOUT WHICH WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION SADDAM ACTUALLY HOLDS, AND WHETHER HE HAS EFFICIENT DELIVERY SYSTEMS FOR THEM. Since the end of the Gulf War, UN inspection teams have discovered and destroyed more that 145,000 TONS of nerve gas in Iraq. As for biologicals, how difficult is it really to smuggle in and deploy dozens of vials of say, anthrax, in major cities of the Middle East - or Europe or North America for that matter? --------------------------------------------------------------------- WHERE HAS SADDAM SAID HE WANTS TO CONQUER SAUDI ARABIA? I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH THAT. CARROLL'S POINTS ABOUT ISRAEL AND TURKEY ARE WELL TAKEN. MANY OF OUR ALLIES HAVE HORRENDOUS ATROCITIES HAPPENING RIGHT NOW, AND WE LOOK THE OTHER WAY. I THINK OUR DEFENSE OF ISRAEL MAY EVENTUALLY RESULT IN WORLD WAR THREE--A HOMELAND FOR THE JEWS WAS A VERY NICE IDEA, AND THEY WERE CERTAINLY QUITE PERSECUTED AND DESERVED A PLACE TO LIVE, BUT NOT RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF ARAB STATES. ISRAEL IS ABSOLUTELY RAMPANT WITH HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES, INCIDENTALLY, AGAINST THE PALESTINIANS, WHOSE LANDS WERE CONFISCATED. ESTABLISHING A STATE WHICH MIMICS THE WAY THE JEWS WERE TREATED HISTORICALLY IS SOMETHING LESS THAN A CLEAR VICTORY FOR THEM. His stated goal is to become the head of the entire Middle East.That's what he wants to go down in history for accomplishing. I agree that creating the State of Israel was a mistake - but that does not negate the danger of a despot like Saddam. --------------------------------------------------------------------- I DON'T THINK JON IS CALLING THEM CREEPY BECAUSE THEY ARE MOSLEM. PERHAPS IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH STONING PEOPLE TO DEATH FOR WHAT WE CONSIDER MINOR CRIMES, OR OFFENSES LIKE ADULTERY. AND IF SADDAM REALLY WANTED TO CONQUER SAUDI ARABIA, WHY WON'T THE SAUDIS LET US USE THEIR BASES? ______________________________________________________________________________________ They are Moslems. They follow Moslem law as set forth in the Koran. They are not Judeo-Christian, nor are they "creepy". The Saudis are too political and do not want to upset those factions in other Arab countries that support some of Saddam's ideas. YES, APPEASEMENT DOES NOT WORK, AND IT SEEMS LIKE WE SHOULD TAKE A VERY FIRM STAND. HOWEVER, IN THIS CASE IT IS NOT THE NATION BUT A SEEMINGLY PSYCHOTIC LEADER WHO IS THREATENING OUR SECURITY. IRAQ THE COUNTRY IS REALLY NO THREAT AT ALL. I THINK THAT IS WHY YOU ARE SEEING A DEBATE IN CONGRESS ABOUT CHANGING THE LAW THAT MAKES IT ILLEGAL FOR THE U.S. TO ASSASSINATE THE LEADER OF ANOTHER COUNTRY. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Bottom line is this: the people are responsible for the government of a country. The germans were/are responsible for Hitler, the Iraqis were/are responsible for Saddam. Saddam is a monster - they should depose him. But, many in Iraq think like him, so he remains. --------------------------------------------------------------------- WELL, WE KILLED SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 100,000 AND 200,000 HASTILY CONSCRIPTED YOUNG IRAQIS--YOUNG MEN WITH FAMILIES--BY BURYING THEM ALIVE IN THE DESERT AS THEY WERE TRYING TO RETREAT. I THINK WHAT CARROLLL IS SAYING IS THAT THIS TIME, WE CANNOT JUST BOMB THEM FROM THE AIR AGAIN LIKE WE DID THEN. DESERT IS DESERT, BUT WE WILL BE CLOSER TO THE SAND THIS TIME. --------------------------------------------------------------------- We were on the sand last time with 100,000s of ground troops! --------------------------------------------------------------------- THAT KIND OF WAR IS NOT A PROUD MOMENT FOR AMERICANS LIKE ME. I WAS ASHAMED. IF SADDAM HAD BEEN ASSASSINATED OUR PROBLEMS WOULD BE OVER, BUT HE WAS NOT. SO IT WAS AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF BLOODSHED FOR NOTHING, REALLY, EXCEPT TO TEST OUR NEW WEAPONS SYSTEMS, WHICH WEREN'T ACTUALLY AS SMART AS WE THOUGHT THEY WERE. Christine, would you not feel greater shame if Saddam had kept Kuwait, subjugated its people under a reign of sustained terror, then used Kuwait as a military staging ground from which to launch his weapons of mass destruction on surrounding neighbors thus inflicting horrendous casualties of 5 to 10 million (or more) of innocents, in his campaign to bring the Middle East under his heel? (BTW, most of our weapons systems proved themselves brilliantly in the battlefield.) Father Terrence