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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (762753)	5/11/2022 8:53:54 PM
From: THE WATSONYOUTH	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793761

............if there were no possibility of nukes, would you have allowed Putin to achieve all his obvious initial goals........... encircling Kiev.... forcing eventual capitulation...... taking the Donbas and all it resources, taking all of southern Ukraine and all of its seaports... land locking Ukraine .....controlling all of the offshore oil and gas deposits in the Black Sea......obtaining a land bridge to southern Europe for a gas pipe line thus cutting off all transfer payments to Ukraine. Do you deny these were his goals all along???

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (762753)	5/11/2022 9:48:45 PM
From: greenspirit	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 793761

I know I’m over the target when Maurice resorts to calling my posts “chimp talk”. The problem is chimps think only of carrots and sticks. The nuance of reasoning on the boundaries of nationalistic pride, culturally valued norms escapes the chimp mind of money as carrot and poverty as stick. Maurice thinks only of money, hence the philosophy of buying citizenship rights. As nothing else matters but the money. Strangely, this is all about money with the Russians, but because his wealth might be interrupted if Russia doesn’t run ruckshot over Ukraine, he’s afraid. The fear mindset is very monkey-like. Fear of nuclear war, fear of market crashes, fear of global warming, the dark, or a leopard's roar. It’s all about fear.

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (762753)	5/11/2022 10:36:08 PM
From: golfer72	5 Recommendations Recommended By Ben Smith John Hayman Maurice Winn pak73 rxbond Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 793761

One of my favorite quotes is " If everyone is thinking the same thing, someone isnt thinking" Not sure who originated it though. Perfectly explains groupthink

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (762753)	5/12/2022 7:11:03 AM
From: skinowski	7 Recommendations Recommended By 3bar Ben Smith frankw1900 Hoa Hao lightshipsailor and 2 more members Respond to of 793761

We all agree that our values and freedoms (even when they’re under pressure) are wonderful and worth fighting for - but what’s the point of it if we become scattered dust, contributing to the nuclear winter? The surviving cockroaches may not fully appreciate our glorious effort of ignoring reality in favor of verbosity. Ukraine is indeed a proxy war - but on more than one level. The elephant in the next room is China. While Russia - measured in terms of reliably deliverable nuclear megatonnage - is currently the most powerful empire on the planet - China is the real ascending giant. China - not Russia - is the true obstacle to US hegemony in Eurasia and the world - certainly economically, but before long, militarily as well. If American and European Zbigians get their wish, and Russia chooses defeat over a nuclear war - and gets split into manageable colonies under NATO/US military administration (is Paul Bremer still available, btw?) — China gets herself an over 2600 mile border with NATO. Will China like that? Probably not. They have a pretty good thing going with Russia - which, besides trade and all the usual, doesn’t voice objections to Chinese nationals settling over large areas of south Siberia. But, maybe they could get an even better deal with the Americans? Maybe they could get all of the territories that have ever been disputed - and then some? After all, it’s been (correctly) said that nations - especially empires - have no friends, they have interests. The argument against this scenario is that the US will not go for it. China would become even bigger - and more powerful. In the meantime, holding China back is, likely, America's overriding strategic priority. More important than Ukraine and Russia combined. China could work out something with Russia - a territorial deal in exchange for open support in holding NATO back. China must be watching the Ukraine war very closely. If the Russians prove incapable of preventing NATO from giving them a permanent colonoscopy by expanding all the way south-east of Moscow - then, as partners, they can only be “very” junior partners. Ukraine is indeed a proxy war - question is - is it between Nato/US and Russia? — or, on a grander level, between NATO/US and China? If China and Russia decide to combine their efforts, than we may have us a REAL big world war to be proud of. So, the circus is back in town… agitprop music is blasting, and the clowns are out in force. In the meantime, the poor old me, all I want is for the stinkin’ nukes to stay in their silos, and for my grandkids - and for all of their friends and contemporaries - to have a life.