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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: aladin who wrote (769147)	10/7/2022 8:12:51 PM
From: Sdgla	3 Recommendations Recommended By FJB frankw1900 garrettjax Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793559

Oh dear https://t.co/Ubg8K5HlXD — Mollie (@MZHemingway) October 7, 2022 Vegetable If these were serious people working for us. We would be flooding the market with US oil and gas driving down the price both for consumers and hobbling Russia's ability to make money of oil to fund the war. Also not depleting our strategic reserves while facing "Armageddon" — Dave from NY (@TheBlack_Sheep9) October 7, 2022

To: aladin who wrote (769147)	10/13/2022 5:47:16 PM
From: TimF	3 Recommendations Recommended By greenspirit Jacob Snyder THE WATSONYOUTH Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 793559

The removal of government in Ukraine in 2014 was almost entirely an action of the Ukrainians. After they had done the work US government officials came in trying to take credit and perhaps help get things sorted out, but the important action happened because of popular resistance to a government that seemed to care more about sucking up to Russia than their own countries economic future and then shot people protesting against that point. Since that revolution there has been multiple elections and peaceful changes of government. But lets examine the counterfactual. Say the whole thing was a coup not just backed by the US but essentially created by it. That would be a serious issue between the US and Ukraine. Maybe even an issue between the coup leaders in Ukraine and in Russia. But not a legitimate reason to carve a bunch of territory out of Ukraine. Russia didn't act to restore the government of Ukraine from before the revolution. They just grabbed Crimea, supported to the extent of effectively creating armed resistance in Donetsk and Luhansk (not just with weapons but with "little green men" Russian army and contractor fighters). Then 8 years later, after multiple democratic elections they broadly attack across the country, then a bit over a half year after that they annex more territory. As for the Minsk agreements, most of the points were followed, and the ones that Russia says were not, are subject to differing interpretations. as the post 2014 Ukrainian government has been attacking Russian minority areas in the east (something like 40,000 dead in Donbas before Russia intervened). 40,000 dead on both sides, many killed by the separatist forces or even by the Russian military and the Wagner group. All after Russian intervention which started back in 2014. Also mostly in 2014 or 2015 with the civilian deaths in Donbas in 2021 amounting to about a couple of dozen.