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Politics : War -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: TimF who wrote (23865)	3/9/2023 8:51:49 PM
From: TimF	Respond to of 23908

"Ukraine was going to join NATO" - Well its not impossible for it to happen, but they didn't want to join before they were attacked in 2014 (and not overwhelmingly until 2022) and they had about zero prospect of joining after 2014. All Russia's invasion has done in this regard is make Ukraine a confirmed enemy of Russia and have NATO move close to Ukraine (as well as possibly get Sweden and Finland as extra NATO members). "The shelling in Donbass" - Two way violence, part of what was an ungoing low level war that Russia started. Also you had about a couple of dozen dead civilians per year from it as opposed to this from the Russian invasion. This one at least isn't utterly false, but the reality of it doesn't justify their invasion, and Russian's vast exaggerations of it are false.

To: TimF who wrote (23865)	3/9/2023 10:13:51 PM
From: Pravin Kamdar	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23908

Tim, I agree with much of what you say. I do not agree that Putin was unprovoked. Promises broken, 1999, 2004, -- NATO pushing east. A declaration that Ukraine and Georgia will be part of NATO. A hegemony pushing their weight around -- thinking of no consequence. If we did not have so much hubris and backed Ukraine being neutral, I believe this would not have happened. So many dead, and so many more to die -- with a country wrecked. For the cause of Liberal Hegemony in a unipolar world. This is that last crusade. Even if we disagree, I respect your opinion, and the obvious work you have done on the subject. I guess that's what makes a market.