Carl,
No need to apologize for the length. I for one appreciate your comprehensive reply. I expect it will be useful to others seriously thinking of signing up with one of the firms offering this kind of service. For that reason I'm going to comment on the points you make, several of which I believe are excellent. It may help others get a more complete picture. My comments will of course reflect my experience. I do not work for All-Tech, or represent them in any capacity. These are my personal views.
1) The standard ATTAIN monitor for training is 17", and that is a bit small for all the info. Lots of traders at All-Tech have larger monitors. I think they bought them for themselves. Most are making do with a single monitor. A second monitor for news, reports, etc. would indeed be useful. ATTAIN does have news service, and you can set up alerts on news, based on keywords. I intend to trade from home and will probably have a second computer connected to the net for such information.
2) I plunked down my $5000 for the All-Tech training program and spent 4 weeks at their headquarters in New Jersey where they have both the "school" and a large trading room for active traders. I will spend a little more time there. A good thing about All-Tech is they do not throw you out at the end of 4 weeks. As long as they still have space, you can continue to paper trade on their system before going live, either at the headquarters or at a site office. They get people with a wide range of backgrounds, and don't assume you know much. Your right. Good if you are a novice. From what I see on SI, there are many people trying to daytrade who really don't know how the market works, let alone know the tools and strategies for daytrading. I learned a lot of useful things. And yes, the interface to the data and the execution services is worlds different from your typical online broker. ATTAIN uses Real-Tick III from PCQuote for data feed- some powerful tools I'm learning to use better all the time.
3) It certainly is important to feel comfortable with the people. The atmosphere may be different at different offices of either company. I was in blue jeans and flannel shirt for most of my 4 weeks at All-Tech- no problem. So were most of the other people, at least after the first few days. People came from many different backgrounds, including several brokers who want out of that business, Drs, lawyers, engineers, small business owners, etc.
4) All-Tech, and the people working there have been in this business for a while, pretty much started it I hear. I think they really do want you to succeed. They have little to gain from you washing out. $5000 may not even cover their course expenses, and it is nothing compared to what they stand to gain if you stay around and do a lot of trading. Of course they are in business to make money, but I didn't get any negative vibes about being "used" for their gain. The people I have dealt with seem genuine in supporting my success. By the way, OVERNIGHT is pretty much a dirty word at All-Tech (too risky), but good luck with yours anyway.
5) All-Tech does charge $25 per ticket for SOES and Selectnet. Other ECNs charge fees that are passed on: $1 per ticket for ISLD; 1.5 cents per share ($15/1000) for INCA, BTRD, REDI; and .05 cents per share ($.50/1000) for TNTO. All-Tech now has their own ECN, ATTN- don't know about the fees. Is Block really $.15/share, or did you slip a decimal point?
6) Different offices have a different feel. All-Tech in NJ is big, maybe 50-60 seats with lots of support people (trainers, technicians) in the area. In CT there is a nice little office with people filling only about half of the (about 12-16) seats. The fellow who runs the place is an experienced trader. There is one person there supporting the systems, interfacing with the home office, and probably doing many things I don't know about. I'll be going there soon.
7) All-Tech has no "seat" fee. Of course they need you to make some trades to cover their costs and make their profits, but I hear over and over again about not trading when the time is not right. The cost of the course is returned at the rate of $2.50 per ticket with up to six months to do it. 100 round trips in 6 months is reasonable. (DrRisk has probably done more in his first 2 weeks with CyberTrade). In addition, for the first two weeks you can trade live with a 200 share limit at $.05/share to get used to the live system. For remote trading, there is a fee of $500/month for the data feed, waived if you do 220 tickets. That's OK if you are are very active, but this is certainly a consideration. Remote also has connection costs for phone lines, or frame relay, whatever you use.
8) Here I think you make an excellent point about position trading vs momentum trading. There is certainly a momentum mentality at All-Tech. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that these folks paved the way, and were very successful when the "SOES Bandits" were few in number. There was little competition among the public traders for those few thousand shares posted at the inside market. Now there are hundreds of fingers on the trigger in front of the level II screen instead of just a few. I think it's fair to say the predominant All-Tech view is to move away from the DELLs and INTCs, and apply the old momentum techniques to less active stocks. But there are also some new players coming out of the All-Tech program who are doing very well with more of a position approach. I personally think you are on the right track. I too have tried trading with the typical online broker (Datek), and it just doesn't cut it. I want the best tools out there when it's time to make a trade.
All-Tech will shut you down if you lose too much, until you replenish your account. I didn't see any tattoos of any kind <gg>, and 4.5 hours seems a bit long for the hedge explanation. 5% of the long side is required to maintain a hedge position, but Reg-T imposes a first night 50% requirement on both sides. For the uninitiated (me), it does need to be explained. I'm going no further with that here. I can't confirm or refute All-Tech's success rate, or define "success", but I've met the guy that was interviewed on CNBC who was off to a great start in his first two weeks, and others who are doing pretty well.
Whatever your style, discipline to prevent loss of capital is essential, and All-Tech preaches that constantly. I've lost plenty dealing with investment bankers who have a hidden agenda, promise you anything, and then lead you into a "great" startup company that tanks, leaving you holding the bag. If I'm going to lose anymore, I'll do it by myself, thank you. I'm actually quite optimistic about recovering those losses, and making a decent living at this.
Dan |
