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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: greenspirit who wrote (17888)	3/3/1998 12:09:00 PM
From: Grainne	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

I am SO tired of you misrepresenting what I say, Michael, and generally engaging in smear campaigns, that I am compelled to say something, even though I generally just ignore you. I was specifically citing statistics from this last Sunday's 60 Minutes segment on homosexual children. The two separate statistics cited are: 1) thirty percent of teenagers who commit suicide are homosexual 2) fully one quarter of all children who confide in their parents that they are gay are immediately kicked out of their homes. These are not my opinions, Michael. Perhaps you should contact CBS if you want to see how they gathered this information. I find 60 Minutes to be generally reliable, in a statistical sense, so I don't feel compelled to do that. How you twisted what I said into "citing some ridiculous statistics that one quarter of the 30% of homeless children in San Francisco are there because there(sic) families were christian and kicked them out is pure popycock(sic)" is a fine example of the way you misunderstand, distort and make ugly almost any serious discussion in which you are involved. It is true, however, that many young runaways who come to San Francisco are gay children whose parents kicked them out of their homes. We have a general aura of tolerance out here, and there are residential centers and other programs to try to help them. If you doubt that homosexual teens have an increased rate of suicide, perhaps you should read this: virtualcity.com If you want to kick terms like bigotry around here, and continue to misrepresent what I say, I would suggest you start by looking in the mirror. You have made it very clear here that you believe giving homosexuals the right to marry is "in your face" and that they should not have this right. However, most experts now conclude that homosexuality is not voluntary, nor is it a mental illness. So you, from your exalted Christian moral stance, have decided that another group of people who did not make themselves that way, should be arbitrarily denied the right to form permanent households, find someone to love and stay with them, or enjoy the tax advantages that may accrue because of that, or enjoy the other rights and privileges of people in committed relationships, and that you have the right to judge them. Perhaps you should look up the definition of bigotry before you sling it around again. I have nothing against the real values of Christ, as they are generally understood to include acceptance of people who are imperfect or outcastes in their societies. I think I would have really liked hanging out with Christ, and I bet he would have liked me. I certainly have the highest respect for his teachings, to the extent that the purity and integrity of them can be separated by how mortals twisted them later, for their own political and personal motives. Jesus was inclusive, not exclusive. When I see people calling themselves Christians and not acting Christ-like, however, I think it is as valid to discuss how that ignorant and judgmental behavior hurts people as it is to discuss anything else here, and certainly the conservative Christian denominations in America, because of the way they interpret the Bible, do discriminate against and damage their gay children. This is exactly where the 60 Minutes statistics come from.

To: greenspirit who wrote (17888)	3/3/1998 8:35:00 PM
From: Carol	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Michael, I did not miss what Christine said about the gay kids. Now, I really can't address that issue, having no knowledge of statistics in San Francisco. Although, gays seem to proliferate in the Bay area, or from what I have read and seen on television. That is my only source of information on this area, so I would assume Chrissy knows more about what goes on there, seeing she is a resident. I spoke from my own prospective of living in Canada, I know where our street people come from, but each area of the country has its own homeless dynamics. I do agree with doby that street kids in our larger cities like Toronto, are kids from terrible abusive homes and have run away, seeing the streets as a kinder alternative than what they were living. A sad commentary on the decline of good parenting also. Michael, don't be angry, if someone has a differing opinion, that is what makes SI the wonderful stimulating place it is. Now, I'm going to check the link you gave me. 0;-} Carol