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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Rambi who wrote (17923)	3/7/1998 4:52:00 PM
From: James F. Hopkins	Respond to of 108807

Penni; I want to take this moment to affirm that you have the correct take on the over used and excessive value placed on self-esteem by most of the pop psychology in todays world. -------------------- I once said, That without respect there is no love Your words oft express my feelings better than my own, it's one of the reasons I read so many of your posts. -------------------- RE>>the development of self-respect in a child, which is very important. We do no child a service when self-esteem is really self-delusion. << -------------------- In first things first if a child is not taught self respect, self-esteem will not be lasting and can lead to all sorts of problems. As with out a degree of self respect one will encounter a dilemma as to what should or should not be respected. Ones sense of right and wrong can become twisted, or wax and wane with every wind that blows. ---------------- My first marriage ended before I came to understand the above enough to implement it, and sadly the children suffered extreme emotional abuse and damage mostly by their mother who had no concept of it at all. She had used a from of stripping all self esteem and putting them on constant guilt trips to manage them. I was a seaman and I had to leave the raring of the children in her care, it was when I was in that I noticed her tactics. While we had many arguments about it I lacked the skill to show her what she was doing wrong. The most tragic part is that the children still suffer from her abuse and I seemed to be powerless to alter much of the damage done to them at such a young age. Had I been able to give to them more of what had been given to me there is a good chance her tactics would not have impacted them as hard as it did. Latter , but too little too late I did induce to some degree into two of the girls the need for self respect, enough that it gave them a small buffer and defense against her insidious control over them. ------------------ Perhaps the pop psychology stresses the need for self-esteem, in hopes to off set the horrors inflicted by those who do nothing but be-little and use sarcasm on children. I'm inclined to think if self-respect was more the focus and induced early on then sarcasm and such would not have such a horrible effect and most would run off their backs like water off a duck. ------------------------- I'm not with out guilt in confusing them, for sure I bought into and tried to counter her effects by propping up their self-esteem, not knowing the real culprit was the lack of self respect. ------------------------ Maybe just maybe this little self revealing will enlighten some one who chances on it and who has a problem of this nature to focus more on the need to teach self respect than just feed them large doses of any thing to help their self-esteem. That's like trying to use a band aid to cover up an amputated limb. --------------------- Without respect there is no love, as the two must go hand in hand If any one quoted that before me well good for them, but till they show it to me I'll take credit for it being an original. ---------------- Are you surprised I followed you over here <g> ? Jim

To: Rambi who wrote (17923)	3/8/1998 11:57:00 PM
From: Grainne	Respond to of 108807

<You have made a couple of allusions to my "oft-voiced feelings about self-esteem" and I'm not clear what you think these are. It is the overuse of the term and the distortion of what I believe true self-esteem means to which I object, not the development of self-respect in a child, which is very important. We do no child a service when self-esteem is really self-delusion.> Penni, when I referred to your oft-voiced feelings about self-esteem I meant the same thing that you stated above. That is why I thought you would find it ironic that the California students who did not do well on their standardized tests THOUGHT they did wonderfully. They had been praised so much in a total disconnect with the reality of their achievement, that they had lost touch in a way. I agree that the development of self-respect in children is very important. When babies are tiny, everything they do on the path to growing up is a small miracle. At some point, however, intuitive mothers and fathers gradually begin to show their love and encouragement in a way that is still supportive, but without praising every tiny step a child makes. Last year, my daughter brought home some pieces of art she had produced, and when she asked my opinion I remarked honestly that there was one I liked very much, and another one that I did not particularly care for. She remarked that she remembered when I loved ALL of her art, and I tried to explain that as children got older, their mothers still loved them just as much, but that they liked their work the most when it was the very best they could do.