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Pastimes : JESUS and FINANCIAL FREEDOM -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: gregor who wrote (673)	3/12/1998 12:30:00 PM
From: Barnabus	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1283

"Life can only be understood backwards, but we must live it forwards." Kierkegaard B.

To: gregor who wrote (673)	3/12/1998 7:18:00 PM
From: Alan Markoff	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1283

Dear Gregor, It is so hard for me to even understand exactly what is meant by being under the law. Respect for the wisdom of God as good for my life to me is not trusting it as may salvation but just trusting Him period. I am not saying you don't but feel this is the root of the term being under the law and I am trying to explain where I am coming from. Parts of the law are obviously accepted by all people like the 10 commandments so I don't understand what is bad to follow. Isn't a lack of personal relationship with Jesus the real problem in the scriptures with the law? Then the NT gives 2 views on some laws, like circumcision, Paul told Titus not to be circumcised but took Timothy himself to be circumcised. This tells me that these things are personal and each of us has to work out our own salvation and encourage one another along. It is impossible for me to take away the New or Old Testament, Jesus said in the wilderness that man does not live by bread alone but on EVERY WORD THAT COMES FROM GODS MOUTH. That is how I see it every word. Understanding it and applying it to our lives is between each person and the Holy Spirit. To me His Holiness in Jesus as demonstrated in the Ark in the OT has saved me from self destruction and taught me right from wrong and how to love others and I am so totally gratefull that I love His Holiness. I am confident to come to Him and crawl into His lap for comfort and counsel but revere Him as my Father who will not spare me from my errors but carefully discipline me to conform me into the image of His perfect Son. Why is eternal punishment such a focus of the Church? That to me has been totally taken care of but as for now I want to please Him and have felt the impact of His discipline and maybe others are not as bad as I am but that discipline gave me the fear of the Lord.:( The fear of the Lord is good as it is for my children to fear me, I understand the need of it to guide us and conform us. I get red flags as well like to me the need to express the OT as dead or say the law was imperfect and I start scratching the dirt and snorting. But I am praying to listen first and make sure I have His wisdom and understanding before I charge. Thought I would add a few to the list of agitating remarks; Aren't you glad you don't have to be one of those Jews anymore? Only the Jews will stay for the tribulation. Your life would be better if your husband attended church more regularly. Everyone who is not baptised with water will not go to Heaven. You would think at some point I would get numb or let go and let God deal with it. The word for me this year is Compassion. Yeshua had so much compassion like when He saw them crying about Lazarus and the widow whos son He raised from the dead from compassion. May He be our guide this year. Nancy

To: gregor who wrote (673)	3/13/1998 1:09:00 PM
From: gregor	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 1283

TO ALL: Please pray for Darrell, 18 years old, Memphis TN, undergoing spinal surgery for 12 hours today; to stave off paralysis caused by car accident yesterday.

To: gregor who wrote (673)	3/14/1998 9:10:00 AM
From: Alan Markoff	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1283

Dear Gregor, Thank you for your post. The truth is I do not feel comfortable because I know the harshness in the attitude of the OT by so many and know if I ever say what I feel about Gods Word I will get many opinions on the way it is imperfect or unusefull and that is where they are. This is where I am; Matthew 5:17-20 "Do not think I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets(OT); I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until Heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the smallest stroke of the pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of Heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of Heaven. For I tell you unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the Law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of Heaven. The Lord goes on to explain the Law and make it clearer and the only one of the basic 10 He changed is the Sabbath for He is now the Lord of the Sabbath and we are to do good on the Sabbath. To me everything being accomplished will be all scripture from the Law and the Prophets He was refferring to being completed then Heaven and earth will disappear. So when grace is over taught we are possibly teaching people to be lawless when we are clearly under the Law of Messiah, the Law of love and His definition is in Matthew 5-7. None of these things affect eternal possition as you see everyone will be there that believes in Him but it does affect their relationship with Him now and eternally. Also, there has to be more to the verse in Hebrews for the OT can not pass away until it has been accomplished and Heaven and earth are gone. We see many verses that He would be back before some died and we find a reasonable answer for those verses but people stand by the verse in Hebrews for it suits the desire of their heart. The righteousness of the Pharisees we see in Yeshuas teachings was cold and unloving for the sake of the Law. Actually a true student of the Law will immediately say the 613 Laws in the OT are consistent with Matthew 5-7. God is and was and will be loving, Mercifull, and Holy (pure to those who love Him and follow His ways not their own ways).To me when the Lord says we must pick up our cross and follow Him, He was saying to do His will above our own will daily ( in the garden, not my will but your will be done, that was His decision about the cross). I stand in His righteousness and obey Him to my best ability out of love and respect, but as scripture says I will give an account for the freedom He has given me. There is no bondage but freedom from sin in these verses. When the Son sets you free you shall be free indeed. Actually we are in agreement the only difference is that I think you feel there is a yoke from respect for the Law of God which to me is Yeshua and I feel there is a freedom from that yoke for He is carrying the other side for us. What is the grounds for seperating the sheep and the goats? Is it based on who loved Him the most and who taught people the best? No it is about love and compassion as obedience to His Law. Just sharing part of my personal relationship with Him and explaining what I understand as the Law. I want to encourage all to pray for Darrels parents as well I had a real burden for them last night. To me it is a fear for most parents to have to walk where they are. May the Lord give them Peace and be a real Presence to them and heal their son. Thank you for sharing your understanding of the scripture and I respect you totally and pray the Lord bless you in every way,Nancy