<First off, there is no dissent in the "Christian community". There are churches who have founded themselves on the idea that they enjoy being gay, like it, accept it, etc.
One could also found a "church" on the premise that the attending church members enjoy swapping wives, like it, accept it, etc.
Neither of the above two examples would mean there is "dissent" in the church of which they left. Actually it would indicate that the original church held firm in it's position that wife-swapping was "wrong".>
I'm not sure why you brought wife-swapping in as an example of anything. I hope you are not subtly implying that non-Christians tend to indulge in this practice. There is PLENTY of dissent in the Christian community about gay issues, and while I am aware of one church which spun itself off, most churches are evolving on their policies towards gays. This url is a list, which I think is a little dated, however, with the official positions of existing Christian churches, and their policies are all different. To suggest that all Christians, or churches, think alike is inaccurate:
cs.cmu.edu
<Re "and even whether Jesus was a real man or an ideal invented by people later for political reasons.."
Christine, give it up! There is NO "dissent in the Christian community" on such a
ludicrous statement.
Is there dissent in among Moslems over whether or not Mohammed existed?
CERTAINLY NOT. A suggestion that there was, based on a web page with
another agenda, is patently ridiculous AND offensive.>
Please read what I write, Dwight. I did not say there is dissent in the Christian community on whether Jesus existed. Of course Christians would believe that he did exist. What I said is that Christianity is a belief system, just like any other belief system, and has no OBJECTIVE reality unless you have bought into the belief system, at which point it becomes meaningful and real to you (but not to me). So the conservative Christian belief that homosexuality is voluntary behavior, and a sin, and variously that homosexuals can be saved only if they never engage in homosexual acts, and all the other conservative Christian beliefs should not really impact on the way the larger society treats homosexuals.
What you are doing in several posts is insisting that your interpretation of the Bible is the correct one, if I'm understanding you right, and that this proves that homosexuals should be viewed in a particular way in America. All I'm saying is that while that is true for you, not everyone is a conservative Christian, and some of us do wonder if Jesus ever existed, or if the Bible was a contemporary document or was written much later. Certainly, there is a case across several disciplines which could be made for these beliefs, but I am not making it. I am simply pointing out that these arguments exist, and that your belief system should not dominate the legal system.
<Christine, I've reached the same conclusion that Michael reached. You are indeed simply anti-Christian. Your statements support that. Whatever it was that shaped your view, I'm sorry it happened.>
I am not anti-Christian. I have Christian friends and family members. I think your stating that is a way that you hope I can be discredited without your actually proving your arguments. I do believe that in situations like the Inquisition, and creating a very prejudicial atmosphere towards homosexuals (I have more examples, but I don't want to bore you), Christian beliefs have caused pain for millions of people. I support freedom of religion. I also support freedom FROM religion, in that there should be total separation of church and state, and no American should be discriminated against in employment, or housing, or in any other way, simply because he or she is homosexual.
<You are determined to believe that it is Christians who are "determining the fate" of gays. How do they do that? By preaching in the Christian churches that homosexuality is sin, along with adultery, lying, gossiping, killing, etc? Is that how?>
There is no opposition to full civil rights for homosexuals in America that I have been able to determine, except for that of conservative Christians. When conservative Christians are made to believe that homosexuality is a sin, then they tend to vote against laws which would treat gays fairly. One example would be where Maine voters just decided that employers could discriminate against homosexuals.
How can you put homosexuality--an involuntary state of being--in the same sentence with adultery, lying, gossiping, killing--all acts of dishonesty or crimes of varying seriousness--and not say that would tend to prejudice people against homosexuals? Who are you to judge, really?
<We do have an amendment, the first one in the Bill of Rights, which says that "Congress shall make no law...of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;">
Are you suggesting you are opposed to the First Amendment?>
As I said, I support the complete separation of church and state, and equal rights under the law for all Americans. |
