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Technology Stocks : All About Sun Microsystems -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: cfimx who wrote (8451)	3/21/1998 8:59:00 PM
From: Carl Wysocki	Respond to of 64865

Twister, I have to congratulate you on your handiwork in Georgia, but it certainly pales in comparison to your Florida appearance. Where are you going to show up next? The one thing many people fail to realize, IMO, is that there is absolutely no value assigned to Java by the market to SUNW yet. So, if MSFT, et. al. totally destroy Java, the stock will not suffer, at least in the longer term. The growth in enterprise servers will provide decent returns for the forseeable future, and while some are expecting an acceleration in that growth rate due to Java, none of that is reflected in the current stock price. Kinda reminds me of EMC a few years ago. Hell, what's Sun's TTM eps? Something like 2.10. So stock is selling at 21 x trailing earnings, while the S&P is trading at something like 22x forward earnings and growing at 11% (current estimate, despite a 1-2% Q1 growth rate) vs Sun's historical 20+% rate and forward 18% rate. Java is upside, which I certainly hope arrives. But, in the meantime, the stock provides a good resting place for money that's inured to volatility. Say, I know a nice trailer park in Oklahoma you might be interested in. Carl

To: cfimx who wrote (8451)	3/22/1998 2:43:00 AM
From: Kashish King	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 64865

Twister has had a long time to come up with his spiel and what does he offer: longs will pump up the good news and dismiss the bad. Then he goes on to say that we should not believe our own eyes and ears: those tendencies are unique to All About SUNW whereas other threads seek the truth. Although those tendencies are natural and pervasive throughout SI, this thread is probably one of the most level-headed and rational. That is, at complete odds with Twister's comments but in complete agreement with his goals: pushing peoples' buttons. Try and be less transparent and less comical if you really want to have your comments taken seriously. All of that is noise level fluff compared to the real issue: Java is not only challenging Microsoft's dominance, it's already damaging it. We don't need to spin anything. Java has been an open specification from the outset and HP is stepping up with its own implementation. If they track the ISO standard then it will be a success because it will leverage current and future Java software right out of the box -- or off the wire, as it were. So go crawl back into your hole Twister as we don't need to be reminded of just how wrong you were about Java, there was never any doubt.

To: cfimx who wrote (8451)	3/22/1998 6:41:00 PM
From: Scott McPeely	Respond to of 64865

Java advocacy is not going over well on rec.games.programmer. Here are some quotes: ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Yeah, but with Java you aren't writing to one vendor's platform,you're writing to 100 vendors platforms. You don't have control over the JVM that the application is going to run on, unless you intend to download your own chosen JVM with your application. The net result is that you end up having to deal with multiple platform vendors, and if you think that getting information out of Microsoft on bugs is hard, try to get it out of Microsoft and about 30 JVM vendors. ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// That Microsoft's notorious Java implementation actually turns out to be the best implementation available makes a mockery of many a Java advocate's posts. That current JVMs do not yet implement Java 100% correctly is no surprise to anyone with even a vague understanding of how this industry works. Even C++ is still prone to incomplete implementations -- as the thread discussing C++ on consoles has shown. If C++ compilers, after years of development and standardisation still cannot be guaranteed 100% compatible, it's no great shock to find out that Java implementations are also plagued with incompatibilties. ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// The point about Java is that there are about 100 JVM's out there.. (or JIT's), and just because my code runs on one JVM, doesn't mean that it will run on the next vendors, or the next version, which is changing frequenly. ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Java won't change the OS that I use, it will only be IN ADDITION to the OS that I use. I guess you're the fool. ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Java was designed to run appliances by an egomaniac that sat in McNealy's office and told him he was a moron, and then followed it up with Java Advocacy. The goals were specifically to run distributed appliances.. the market noise of the Internet is what lead to the next several steps.. and the mess that we currently have. ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Do you really think we're that stupid? We know how JIT works, a few people in this group have written compilers and we know that JIT compiled Java is still ridiculously slow compared to native code. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

To: cfimx who wrote (8451)	3/22/1998 8:37:00 PM
From: Scott McPeely	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 64865

Yeah, the geniuses on this thread scoffed at the Citrix thin client technology and said it would be a flop compared to the NC. Today the Java NC is still in the lab while thin client computers based on old rehashed technologies (X-terminal, etc) sell in good numbers. Who can forget about the prediction that a browser + JVM would damage Microsoft Windows. Today the Internet Explorer is rapidly taking away market share from Netscape and Sun's Hotjava is not even on the map. I guess the next biggy is eSuite but it is already getting bad reviews