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Technology Stocks : All About Sun Microsystems -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: cfimx who wrote (8470)3/23/1998 3:58:00 PM
From: Nolan Toone  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 64865
 
Boy what twisted thinking floats around.

1. If anyone thinks that coming up with a new system means
you deny access to ALL legacy (yes, everyone is talking of
Win## as legacy) is really DUMB!

To get customers to your NEW AND IMPROVED system you provide
that PLUS access to the OLD junk. It doesn't matter if
its win/java or Cobol/C YOU JUST DO IT!

2. Citrix is the one licensing Window code not Sun. They are
the one providing the 100% Pure Java Client that understands
the protocol. i.e.. NO WIN## CODE!

Nolan
(Sorry for shouting but stupidity make me angry)



To: cfimx who wrote (8470)3/23/1998 6:01:00 PM
From: Scott McPeely  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 64865
 
Java advocacy is a goldmine of interesting info for us nitwits:

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Of course, this is a factual matter. The Sun lawsuit in itself doesn't
prove it. The Sun lawsuit came at the same time as the W3C's DOM spec,
which is language neutral so Sun knew that it had lost the battle for
the ObjectWeb with the release of IE4.

This is typical Unix world behavior. Spout a lot of idealism about
some new great thing to compensate for the
splintered-to-protect-profit-margins-of-companies-like-Sun Unix world.
Of course, Sun's whole Java platform effort is designed to keep
low-priced PC industry competition out.

M$ is the only Java-licensee that was expected to follow the 100% Pure
Java,because it was an impossiblity, basically because Sun is not a
software company and can't write good software (and certainly can't
make a living at it" so we have to have all the disinformation
projecting Sun's incompetence with Java onto M$, who can write good
software.

The basic premise for the modern bigot is to demonize some subject so
then, instead of arguing on the merits, the opposition is discredited,
and these bigots keep jobs, get jobs for friends and fellow
ideologues, and all the other goodies of a corrupt establishment. The
last thing the modern bigot can do is compete in the marketplace, be
it ideas or products.

Java the platform is a perfect example of this. Built on hype and
supported by ABM bigotry, it goes forth as a kind of second rate
effort at interoperability.

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Sun uses the promise of Java wonders to sell its server hardware. The
same hardware is going to be sold by Dell in a few years. Within 5
years, Sun is likely to be purchased by some upstart PC industry
company, like Digital, Tandem, etc.

For all the Java hype, you don't see any Unix vendors buying anything.
Silicon Graphics may not survive, and has had to go to NT. Unix
profit margins, which they have thrived on, have been undercut. Sun
has had to reduce workstation prices severely.

NT5, with its clustering and scalability, will have the same effect on
Sun's web server business. Sun will have to compete for the high end
business with IBM and HP. And Sun is not known for its service. In
fact, Sun has the characteristics of the schoolyard bully,
McNealy--not exactly the endearing service type.

The PC industry players are only thousands of times richer.
They got rich because they were afraid of those Sun developers, who
incidentially are touting a language that is used to teach beginning
computer classes, and is widely known to appeal to the less capable
developers--those about on a par with VB developers.

The ABM camp fears their replacement with "shrink-wrapped" software.
They think talent is comtemplating your OO models.

Now its not just shrinking they have to fear, but plug-in components.
And,aside from getting the DoJ is "de-innovate" M$ so the Sun
"diversity" camp can be protected, most of these developers will be
forced to go to the high end and compete with IBM, or fold their
tents.

The same thing happened when the integrated circuit came out.
Countless hardware engineers were laid off, their jobs obsolete.

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You miss the point that the Java platform is Java-centric, so its not
enough that Java is just one of many languages. This is the way it
should be, that Java is just another language with certain stengths
and weaknesses.

However, this is not enough for the Java religion. Java must be the
Windows killer that is going to save Unix and its custom world from
the "shrink-wrapped" invaders.

I try to call one "Java," the language, and the other, the "Java
platform."

My arguments really have to do with how vendors and markets are
structured, etc., than with which companies have "kinder and gentler"
qualities.

I favor competition strongly for its benefits. That's why I like to
cut through all this "standards" malarky, used to avoid competition.
Standards are great for certain things like file formats, etc. But
the idea of having one standard language is rather silly. And one
standard middleware might evolve, but to hold up standards as a way of
avoiding competition is seriously deficient, especially if your
middleware hasn't proven itself.

It's a little strange to the PC industry how the Unix world is
obsessed with standards and the disingenuous discourse. Perhaps its
the Unix background in the academy, where phony balony talk is the
only way to survive. Do the talk, and then do a completely different
walk, kind of Clinton style.

The Unix world is basically a lot of deadwood waiting to be cleared.
The notion that Unix can survive Merced, like the level playing field
notion, to a bunch of corrupt incompetent people who can't even think
straight, is a little far-fetched.

The sucker is always hooked on the esoteric item that doesn't work in
the sense that it isn't key, but it's an item that the sucker ego can
identify with to build this kind of disingenuous persona.

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