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To: werefrog who wrote (13817)	3/26/1998 4:00:00 PM
From: DanZ	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 53068

Z trade/Personal trade - APM. Sold 2500 APM at 12 5/16...bought this morning at 11 7/8. Take the quickie. Dan

To: werefrog who wrote (13817)	3/26/1998 4:20:00 PM
From: Steven Bowen	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 53068

"say the low side is 40 5/8" So you're saying the bid is 40 5/8? Like 40 5/8 by 41? "I have placed a limit order, all or none...I key in buy 1000 shares at 40 1/2 good for the day. If it dips down the order is filled, if not I wait until the next day." In this case, since you placed an AON order, you may not get a fill until the ask drops to 40 1/2 ie maybe 40 by 40 1/2. If you did not place an AON order, your order would have to get shown on a level II screen and you would get filled as soon as the bid dropped to 40 1/2 and as soon as anyone that was there first got what they wanted at 40 1/2. In this case you could get filled if the quote dropped to 40 1/2 by 40 7/8, for instance. That "all or none" seems to make a big difference in the price you can get exercised at. I don't think most people realize this, I never did. "If you placed the same order, you would key in buy 1000 shares at 40.5625 all or none, good for the day, right?" If the quote was 40 5/8 by 41, if I wanted to try to scalp a quick 1/4 point in the spread, I would key in buy 1000 at 40 11/16. And not AON. This way the quote would have to update to 40 11/16 by 41, and the next sale at 40 11/16 would fill me, and the quote would probably drop back to 40 5/8 by 41. I then immediately place an order to sell 1000 at 40 15/16, the quote updates to 40 5/8 by 40 15/16, and the next buyer will get mine at 40 15/16. "you will have to search for stocks with a wide ask, bid ratio" Yes, the idea is to take advantage of wide bid/ask spreads. "Here's one with a good daily spread ORCTF" Just as important as a big spread is good volume. You want a stock with enough action that your buys and sells get filled almost immediately. If you don't get fast fills, the stock can move against you and wipe out your 1/4 profits in a hurry. If the quote really is 15 1/2 by 18 1/2, it must be because there isn't much action in the stock. If the MM's know what you're trying to do, they might let you buy at 15 3/4, but then immediately drop the quote to 15 by 15 1/2 and you'd be stuck. One thing to remember, if you do this for a quick scalp, do it, and don't wait for upticks. You're just as likely to get a downtick, and then you're stuck with either a loss or a quick flip that turns into an investment. One other thing to remember (and maybe most important); I really don't know what I'm talking about. Everything I'm telling you, I'm just learning by trial and error (hopefully mostly trial, not many errors). One of the MM's or traders that have posted here probably know a lot better than I do. Hopefully everything I've posted is the truth.