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Strategies & Market Trends : Asia Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ramsey Su who wrote (2774)	3/28/1998 4:35:00 PM
From: kormac	Respond to of 9980

Ramsey, Although you are right to be upset with the talk from Holbrook, this has more to do with CAPITALISM than racism. The new thinking also is wiping out the directions that the welfare states of Europe were heading; and thus the proposals on how to build an egalitarian society, advanced by the WHITE EUROPEAN MALES, is also on the back-burner today. Sincerely, Seppo

To: Ramsey Su who wrote (2774)	3/28/1998 4:47:00 PM
From: Worswick	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 9980

Ramsey, Holbrook is one of thelead point men of the American "establishment". He is, if perhaps not my hero, then one ofthe strongest voices in the establishment here. "The Asian economies will have to play by the same rules as the rest of the world. This is the only fair way to do things," he said, adding that he wanted to deliver "a strong warning that next time out it cannot be business as usual". For almost as long as Holbrook has been in public service I have been doing deals in Asia. I can't tell you the crap that one has to put up: the plain bad faith: the broken promises: the hall of mirrors you walk into where the corrupt always win. Asia 1960-1997 was not a level playing field. Really, if you don't know this: if you don't know still to this day, that European/American firms can't do lots of financial service deals in Asia in the same way Asian firms do business in our markets then you shoulld learn about this. Admittedly, Europeans and Americans have been amongst the corrupt in Asia but they were following local custom. No? Between times... my fatehr was a pharmaceutical exporter to Asia 1946-1970 and once he got a frantic call from his Thai supplier. Two tons of suppositoires weren't melting the way they should be. He wanted to know if they should be returned? Or, could he get a credit? My father dispatched another two tons by air freight. Ah, the era of service and trust that has vanished in the world. An era of willing people who didn't gouge each other and they knew that both trading partners had to make money to win. Win..win...win. What we've lost in the era of Asian values. Asian values are just a load of total crap Ramsey. They are simply an extension of, speaking as a historian, what the Japanese said to the Chinese in the mid-1930's and they used Chinese victims for bayonet practice. You are sub human because you don't have Japanese values. Asian values are the figment of small people bent on dishonest ends... the last refuge of a scoundrel is cultural patriotism. You have been had by the people who gave you the sharp end if you believe this Asian values stuff. Buddhist values. Yes. Confucian values. Yes. Shinto values. Yes. Christian values. Yes. My best,

To: Ramsey Su who wrote (2774)	3/28/1998 6:18:00 PM
From: Stitch	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 9980

Ramsey, <<Whose rules are he talking about?>> I think there is a great risk here of you and I having a violent agreement. By that I mean it is easy to bolster up a lot of feelings about a topic like this when, in fact, we may share similar opinions about the base values. Actually I think thats what Holbrook was saying. And I am still glad he said it because I have never really understood what "Asian" values were except that they may allude to some conventient excuse to rationalize corruption. Values such as family, hard work, respect, are, IMO, universal values. That one society may practice these values more then others may be debated and discussed. But I find it almost inarguable as to the good of these values. I also find it inarguable to discuss whether political and business bribes are good or bad. Let me share three storys with you from the front line that occurred on the day that story ran. I was driving back from a trip to the market. I was going 70 KM per hour in a 60 KM zone. There was a police speed trap consisting of about 15 policeman. They were waving cars over (including mine) in droves. At the time I was stopped there were 9 other cars stopped as well. The officer approached and in a big cheerful voice said "hello boss". In halting English he explained how fast I was going. Then he said and repeated several times that the summons was for 300Rm. While I was handing him my documents he must've repeated himself 6 times, "summons 300Rm". By this time two other policeman joined him, crowding my door and checking out the interior of my car and reading my passport and int'l driver's license. After the 4th or 5th time of hearing "300Rm summons" I said "what? Do I pay you?" The answer was "200Rm boss, also can". Which meant simply that he was saying I could take the ticket or pay him 200. Ramsey, I am ashamed to say I paid him. I paid him because I was nervous, I paid him because I didn't like the looks of the other two policeman. And, alas, I paid him cause that is the norm here. In my two years here I have been stopped 5 times. On ALL occasions I have been solicited for a bribe. I have refused twice. Both occasions were when my son was with me. On those occasions I played dumb. In both cases the police officer became visibly angry and agitated. One just walked away in disgust without issuing a ticket. I am told by locals that I am stopped so often because the police assume I have money. The bribes I have paid are about twice the going rate they tell me. I am ashamed of this but frankly the police here scare me. Not a week goes by that they do not shoot and kill suspects in the line of duty. This in a town of about 1.5 million people. You can be held here for a week without any form of due process. And the jails are renowned for there inhumanity. I am told by others that I do not need to fear this because the police are cautious around westerners. But they are not so cautious that they have not bulit a small cottage industry out of us apparently. That very evening I had dinner with a local American businessman. He is the managing director of a local high tech manufacturer, a j.v. of a local company and an American firm. He got a call on his hand phone, and he obviously wasn't happy about it. I inquired and learned that he was trying to hire a local Chinese engineer. The call was from a bumiputera director of the company who was insisting that the Chinese guy not be hired and the M.D. should wait until a qualified bumi (Malay) candidate presented himself. Also on that day another article, this one in the local paper concerning Mahatir's trip to Germany also appeared. In Germany Mahatir railed against the currency traders again. Continuing to claim that currency traders were stealing the rights of Asians to their incomes, and railing against the West as THE reason for Asia's economic problems, this multi billionaire Prime Minister, who recently used government influence and money to save his son's company (no , I'm not confusing him with Suharto, it happened here as well), is pedaling this story to his people because he cannot politically accept the truth of mismangement and corruption. Ramsey, you accused Holbrook of being a racist. I do not believe he is. I know I am not. But I have been accused of that. It is a convenient charge for anyone to level when they hear criticism that doesn't set well in this situation. Its just too easy to believe that, and to run that flag up the pole IMO. But you also asked whose rules was he reffering to. I will attempt to answer that. I believe that the people who put up the money should set the rules. Its their money. Best, Stitch