To: Grainne who wrote (19492 ) 3/30/1998 9:31:00 PM From: Dwight E. Karlsen Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 108807
Christine, I ask you: Was the post of alleged quotations from Martin Luther, was the post itself an act of love? I don't intend on getting into a comparison of who has thrown the most insults, and I acknowledge that calling Jim "swamp breath" was not an act of love, but an act of anger. I did feel insulted by Jim though, because my personal religious beliefs are based on the Bible, which Jim called a comic book. Jim called Jesus a cartoon character. That is essentially calling me an idiot for believing that Jesus actually did walk the earth in the form of a man. It's fine for you to start comparing who said what now, now that the feeding frenzy of insults thrown by purething and others is over and past, and part of history. Insulting some else's religion is not an act of love, but an act of an angry heart. re I do insist that mankind's nature does not tend towards corruption, if children are loved and nurtured and cared for in a tender way, and have good role models. And if children are ignored, what then? I do certainly of course agree that children should be loved, nurtured, guided, held, played with, etc., and this "good upbringing" will help them to show more love towards others. Nobody here is arguing against raising children with love, affection and attention. Quite the contrary, for me at least. We could argue all day about whether or not man tends towards corruption, but the facts are in the newspapers and history books: Man does indeed continually exhibit the fruits of corruption, and can be incredibly vindictive, harmful and hateful towards his fellow human beings; particularly so when someone is not given moral guidance by their parents as a child. Man can indeed be incredibly loving, towards family and strangers alike. It is heart-warming indeed to read of the many ways and instances whereby strangers do selfless and loving acts to total strangers. re In fact, my own belief is that children who are brought up being indoctrinated that they must be good because they will be harshly punished if they are "bad", or go to hell, or that God is watching them, are the children who do not develop good internal self controls, and instead behave well only if they think someone is watching them, or they receive some kind of a reward. You have a lot of theories Christine, and you have a lot of conclusions. Generally, these theories are negative towards Christians. I'm aware of that bias. So in your above theory, someone who does not develop good internal self controls may be someone who tends toward corruption? Is that it? If you want to test that theory against reality, then I suggest you begin interviewing newly convicted violent felons. Interview an appropriate number to give a good statistical sample. Find out how many have had a Christian upbringing. However, you would need to be accurate: Not "children who are brought up being indoctrinated that they must be good because they will be harshly punished if they are "bad", or go to hell." That's NOT something that Christian children are taught, I can tell you. But you don't need to take my word for it: Ask Christian parents what they tell their children in regards to good and bad, and how it relates to the Christian religion. I for one will tell you that Christian religion teaches both adults and children that God and Jesus loves them very much, in spite of whatever faults they may have. So you would need to include that question in your questionaire of prisoners: "Did your parents tell you that God and Jesus love you, in spite of whatever faults you may have had?" I would recommend interviewing newly convicted felons, because once people are in prison, some of them tend to get religion. Let me know what results your survey gives.