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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Rick who wrote (13068)	4/2/1998 9:43:00 AM
From: Alan Markoff	Respond to of 39621

Dear Rick. It is true that the Lord loves sinners for He loves me. However He is still a righteous and Holy God and requires us to surrender the things that are against His word to Him. This is not done by our own strength or might or power but we are delivered by His Spirit. Once we believe He is the Son of God we have passed from death to life and nothing can seperate us from His love. However He Himself said that anyone who breaks the least of the law and the prophets Matt.5 will be called least in the Kingdom. None of us know the magnitude of what He was saying and we fully know that none of us can obtain a close level of His requirements, so to me we have to submit our will to Him and desire to be changed and willing to grow as we trust Him. This is an ongoing process until we are with Him. He is the Lamb of God that Takes Away The Sin of the World. That means each one of us can be released from any bondage that has captured us. Jesus also said that light has come into the world but men loved darkness and would not come into the light and have their sins revealed. If we are willing to come into that light it is glorious and frees us in a way that we can not comprehend on our own we just have to go there. Sometimes our desires are so powerful that as the Lord said we don't want them to be revealed and we do not want to let go of what we want, This is a lack of trust and a refusal to grow spiritually and this takes many forms in my opinion. Hatred is the top of the list of sins and we see people that refuse to come to Him and have their hearts softened and is goes on to allot of sins. My personal definition of sin is anything that hurts ourselves or other people. That is why it is offensive to God for He loves us all and does not want us to be hurt. In Duteronomy 5 God tells Moses that it is good for the people to fear Him so that they might keep His Laws and commandments SO THAT IT WILL GO WELL FOR THEM AND THEIR CHILDREN FOREVER this is His true desire. We battle against death and destruction and our deep desires for both that were in us from the fall. The Bible is not clear to me as to were evil came from but it does reveal that it was around before the Garden fall. Therefore we do not know that God made it, I think it just developed and Gods perfection will overcome it. I do believe if we are meant to know it would be made clear to us. Why do we all die? Since God is the God of perfect love, then why would he bring us under Adam and Eves curse? I feel that in a way we are truly a part of Adam and Eve from Genetics that God so carefully keeps records of in the scriptures. When He said it to Adam and Eve He was saying it to all of us. However this reveals the Holy side of God He does not change and we still are under the curse of the garden even though we are in the Messiah. So I believe we should press on trusting Jesus to deliverer us and growing to love more as we go. May the Lord bless you today, Nancy

To: Rick who wrote (13068)	4/2/1998 11:48:00 AM
From: O'Hara	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

><>...Rick, there is not much room for any debate...><> in your post. Isa 64:5-6 5 Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved. 6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. But for the blood of Jesus....God have mercy on all of us! God bless you Rick Shalom...><> Henry my love in Christ to you also....May God be with us all

To: Rick who wrote (13068)	4/2/1998 11:58:00 AM
From: Jane Hafker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

I believe we totally understand each other, and apparently you would probably be much more friendly and gregarious around homos than I would. I wouldn't probably be there if I knew, and that's a fact, and that won't change. Now, I do caution you when talking about homo stuff to say that Jesus went to a bar. I know that scripture. We all do. And again, like so many other human interpretation, it seems to be a BAR. But in this context the enemy can now begin to spread through any lurkers that it was true, Jesus went to gay bars and hung out there in His time. These statement of our Lord's perfect life are very dangerous when throw out there. Was it really a bar, come to think of it? Why do we all assume it was a bar, and that HE was drinking. But this is taught a little by inunendo, isn't it, now that I think about it. And we don't KNOW it was a bar. It might have been a place where working guys were eating sandwiches and drinking wine and sitting around on the ground. And our precious Lord like them, and knowing that Peter James and John had been wild blue-collar fishermen themselves, maybe Jesus saw more people like Peter James and John there. And probably so did Peter James and John. Maybe that's where a lot of the guys in the upper Room came from later. It was just BENEATH the SOCIAL LEVEL of those vile game playing human-worshipped rabbis, who liked to stroll around in their costumes with long mournful spiritual looks on their faces, as if in intense prayer, I'm sure. Actually, the Godly sort is usually the one saying humorous things and has a big smile. That's the way I can spot them. The pharisees were first of all disgusting snobs and elitist. The fed on the adulation of other men, and that's probably why they instinctively hated the Lord. I'm sure He interacted with them with strained politeness, looking them right in their devious eyes. I can almost see it in my mind. I do not think we should make these judgments that he was sitting with known pedophiles and such enjoying their wonderful companionship. And as for Mary, I don't think they were as disgusted that she was touching Him, they were upset she was wasting expensive oil they felt should have been taken in as an offering to the church. Things haven't changed much on that. I'll re-read that too. But I don't think they were blasting Him for allowing Mary to touch Him. It seemed to have been more about the waste of the oil Correct me if I'm wrong. It is even more devious and sinister when you realize that seems to be very close to the time these same men had all agreed they should arrange to turn Jesus over as a blasphemer to the Romans, punishable by death. How that must have sickened that priestly official to see all that expensive oil going on condemned feet. When it could have gone to the temple for private use. actuallyI'll look up where Jesus went. I have always assumed it was a bar. For all I know, THERE WERE NO BARS IN ISREAL AT THAT TIME. I believe that was only England almost 1000 years later. But we'll see. It's good to look up. I've heard too much myself about Jesus in bars. NOW IT WILL BE SPREAD IT WAS A GAY BAR AND BECOME KNOWN FACT. We must be more careful on this twisted mind gathering place than any stock thread. It is very good that in the Kingdom there are those with much more tolerance for the things which are wrong, and even for the things that are totally twisted and horrible. Perhaps this is God's way of giving everyone on earth a chance. I know that I personally had a best friend in the whole world who through a prison ministry finally got directed to the source of horror on earth himself, Charles Manson. She ended up visiting this mutation of humanity, and once was so involved in his soul that she yelled, "Well, you just wait, when Charlies' in Heaven he's going to be your brother and you'll have to love him then." I replied, "Thank goodness it's going to be a big place." It ruined our fellowship for two years. Now, we never never discuss it and I would never bring this horrible misguided "ministry" back up for remembrance. And she's still one of my closest friends, more like a sister. But she was wrong about him, and ever word about it was like talking about bugs crawling in your food or something. God just was not in it. Her human desire might have gotten in there to -- to be the reason the worst satanist known converted, I think, was perhaps lurking there somewhere. And he is also something of a charmer, I guess, although I nearly wretch thinking about standing next to the man. That was a very difficult time for me, as we used to sing heavenly melodies together during worship at church and I could find few people alive who loved God any more than she did. Now she's married and has an almost perfect life with a great guy, and those days are of course over. They don't even go to church as the drums drive them nuts too, and it's a good reason to stay home, I guess. But, yes, even Charles has come my way directly as an object to "love".

To: Rick who wrote (13068)	4/2/1998 1:35:00 PM
From: Jane Hafker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Rick, I just read Shaloms post to you about what you said to me. I believe your words are perfectly correct, and especially for you, as this is what God has put in your heart toward this growing problems. I wouldn't try to change your thinking in the tinest degree. What Shalom says about there but the Grace of God, how true. We all here have been abominations. Period. But, Rick, you have been totally conditioned by the press, period, to feel you must "not condemn" homosexuals. Sorry, the scripture totally condemns all who practice this abomination, and it is worse than heroine, which you know people give up in a second. For some reason, these people just will NOT give up wanting sex with people with the same body parts. I pray, "...deliver me from evil." I now live very far from every form of it, except growing drug-related homicides. I plan to move further into the brush one day. If you think that is going to get me thrown into hell, or upset Jesus, than I don't know who Jesus is to begin with. We need to definitely, DEFINITELY study all scriptures on this matter. It is rapidly in the l990s seeming to be forced upon Christians that their fellowship will be in mutual tolerance and faked acceptance of the growing homosexual army. Otherwise, we are somehow "upsetting God." Something is wrong here, it seems.