You have to believe we live in a great time and a great place when two people with such divergent backgrounds and occupations freely come together for a friendly discussion.
Actually, I think we probably agree on this: I was knocking most unions or their members. I was saying that at a certain time and a certain place, some certain union workers had a certain perspective - and, I was probably being more metaphorical than specific. No one, least of all me, was saying anything about you, your union, etc.
I do happen to think that unions have been extremely valuable for worker conditions, benefits and pay. At the risk of starting another round of discussion, I also happen to think that SOME unions swung the pendulum too far and as a result, may have damaged others. I think that some unions have damaged their members for the long term - by creating environments that did not encourage the workers to think for themselves, by creating union shops, where workers are not free to choose whether or not to belong, and to create high paying jobs for low skills, thus incenting employers to look elsewhere.
I think that unions are appropriate when the employers do not treat the workers decently. In the software industry, employers quickly learned that without decent pay, conditions, etc, the workers would walk. I think that some software industry workers are abusing this situation as well - making unrealistic demands, etc., and are spoiled brats. Sometimes, spoiled brats get what they want, and sometimes they kill the goose that laid the golden egg.
Chaz: your initial post, way back there somewhere, certainly implied that you were a disaffected, underpaid, underemployed, whining malcontent. If you aren't - then good for you.
I think there is nothing wrong with getting what you can - that's free enterprise. But, I do see too many people unwilling to change, unwilling to go to school, etc. I think somewhere today, there was a post implying that there should be retraining for COBOL and FORTRAN programers. Actually, there is lots of training available. I've seen very inexpensive classes at community colleges, and more sophisticated private classes that cost more.
Who should pay for this training? I think the individual. Even squirrels and rodents know to stash something away for a rainy day - lots of COBOL/FORTRAN folks seem to have been blissfully blind, living the good life, until something happened. Then, out of a job, they demand a handout from someone. Those folks could see new technologies coming -they read trade magazines, got plenty of direct mail about new technologies, could go to trade shows, etc, - and often failed to plan ahead.
BTW, someone implied that at my previous company, we spent little on employee training. Very wrong. We paid for almost any class an employee wanted to take, including paid time off, provided it was relevant. A week of training, including salary and benefits paid while training, and the actual course cost, plus mileage, parking, and sometimes even out of town travel, could easily run us $4,000 or 5,000 per individual. I wasn't happy about it, but understood the reality and the necessity - at the same time, it made the individual more valuable to us (and the open market).
Who was complaining about the Compaq guy making $70MM? I think he added about $15 billion to the valuation of CPQ, so he gets what, less than half of one percent? And the shareholders get 99.5%? Seems like a great deal to me. If the employees don't like it, leave.
I always told my employees that they could leave at any time, and that they could probably find a job that indeed paid a little more. But, maybe it wouldn't be as fun, or as interesting, or have as much freedom.
finally (whew!) - to that person who was complaining about the world of the $5.75/hour worker - sorry, I'm not prepared to take on the ills of the entire world, and perhaps that is a little too big picture for the scope of this thread. I do think that plenty of people need to take more responsibility for themselves, particularly those who made some bad choices early on, particularly in terms of not taking advantage of a free public education while younger, and now are stuck, although there are many who through no fault of their own are stuck.
I take good care of people who have been entrusted to me - the people who work for me, the people in my portfolio companies, etc. I honestly don't spend 2 minutes/month worrying about the $5.75/hour folks. You gotta compartmentalize somewhere. I've made my choice.
If someone hired me to come up with a solution/put me in charge, I would give it my all. |
