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Microcap & Penny Stocks : Green Oasis Environmental, Inc. (GRNO) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Ferick who wrote (9218)4/21/1998 4:49:00 PM
From: Hawkmoon  Respond to of 13091
 
Ned,

GRNO would be only one small company impacted with an inane policy stance like that.

Exxon, Texaco, Amoco, Saudi Arabia, and every other country or company with a stake in the petroleum economy would be devastated and economic stability drastically impacted.

I imagine someday it could happen, but I believe I will be long dead and buried before any of these politicians get the gumption to try and press this kind of BS through Congress.

And besides, you need fertilizer to make agricultural fuels. Fertilizer is a by-product of the petroleum industry.

I say "Figure the odds"...

But thanks for warning us all about how our investment will definitely become worthless due to the EPA and DHEC. (That is the impression your comments have left me with. I know of no other explanation for your perspective on this issue being immediately germane to a discussion of GRNO.)

<wink>

Regards,

Ron



To: Ferick who wrote (9218)4/21/1998 10:35:00 PM
From: Charles A. King  Respond to of 13091
 
This is an interesting political tug of war between the campaign contributions of Archer Daniels Midland along with the farming industry on one hand and the petroleum industry on the other.

Right now we taxpayers spend a lot of money subsidizing the use of ethanol (alcohol made from grain) blended into gasoline. Multiple attempts to stop the giveaway have been effectively stopped with the effective political help of ADM, the largest maker of ethanol. The argument is that ethanol helps to clean up gasoline exhaust.

The sad part of the ethanol story, which I suspect is true for all alternate fuels, is that it is costly in money and energy as well. It may actually consume more energy than it produces, when you consider the energy to run the machinery and the petroleum to produce the fertilizer and other chemicals. If we were a people who did all our farm work with human labor rather than with energy intensive methods, it might be a different story. But alternate fuels are politically sexy right now and the public is uninformed. I may be uninformed as well and would appreciate some help in getting background for these statements.

There has been a subsidy for many years to use 10% ethanol in gasoline. Now maybe the EPA will require the 10%, I don't know. I find it impossible to believe that the petroleum industry wouldn't be able to handle the situation. GRNO couldn't be left high and dry.

Again, I doubt alternate fuels using processed agricultural products are able to produce a net gain in energy. Sometime in the future, perhaps sunlight could be harnessed to produce hydrogen which then would be used in fuel cells, or some other schemes that sound equally far fetched could begin to replace fossil fuels, but I doubt diesel is under immediate threat. Remember, the diesel industry has also been making technological progress, including the design of small engines. And the scale involved in producing enough energy to run our modern civilization dictates the use of fossil fuels for the foreseeable future. The EPA is just thinking ahead in the political environment of cleaning up the air and reducing global warming. And I think replacing gasoline with diesel lends itself to the reduction of global warming.

Charles

P. S. I wonder whether it is true that using agricultural products to replace engine fuels consumes energy and therefore contributes to global warming.



To: Ferick who wrote (9218)4/21/1998 11:19:00 PM
From: Norman H. Hostetler  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 13091
 
Ned & Charles & Ron, etc.: 1) "10% alternative fuels" means ethanol in the 10-90 blend that is available quite widely in corn country. The Nebraska legislature, in a fit of enthusiasm for their farmer-voters, once considered a bill requiring this mixture. I wouldn't put Iowa past the same motivation. When it was politically popular, some congress people from these states (and a few others) spoke of advancing the idea nationally. That stuff has been dead for years--I suspect your truck tractor dealer is either working on very old news, or some sort of folklore myth. Charles--to the best of my knowledge, there aren't any subsidies for ethanol any more (even Nebraska abandoned theirs two years ago), though there is certainly money for research. 2) ConAgra is one of the 3 megacorps (ADM is one of the other two) that virtually control the corn market in this country. Research on more uses for corn makes sense. Also on soy oil--there is a bus in my city running around now on 100% soy oil, as part of a research project. 3) Of much more practical use is the discovery by another research outfit that the addition of 1/2%-1% soy oil to diesel replaces all the lubricant qualities lost when the sulphur is removed, thus suggesting a potential happy solution to that problem. This blend can be bought at Farmer's Union Co-ops in the Midwest, including in Iowa. 4) Many things are carcinogenic in sufficient concentration. Carbon has a long-standing history as a carcinogen, and not just in Black Lung disease--char-broiled meats aren't the best things in the world for you in this regard, either. A major question regarding these concentrations is cumulative effects of exposure over time. There are mathematical models in organic chemistry for equating the results of quantity of exposure to length of exposure--these are absolutely central to the medical argument over the carcinogenic effects of tobacco smoke, for example, which typically take 30 years or more to begin to appear. Correctly modeled intensive doses can speed up this process in the cells of lab animals, allowing projection of long-term results in humans cells. I much prefer early research and warnings to the sort of thing that happened with DDT, which people used with a sort of gay abandon, ignoring what the stuff was doing to fish, birds, etc., until the carcinogenic effects started showing up in humans. 5) "loved the smell of gasoline"--so that's what lies behind some of your far out ideas, Charles--how long have you been sticking your nose in gasoline? I wonder who has been doing research on the cumulative effects of inhaled gasoline. Not good, I suspect. 6) Ron, you're welcome to one of my favorite "too much is not enough" equations. You can die from eating parsley--get too much of it in too short of a time period and oxalic acid deposits will build up in your kidneys until they quit functioning. All you need to do to commit suicide in this manner is eat about 30 pounds of parsley a day for 30 days. 7) Finally, for all the anti-bureaucrats out there (and I'm a bit touchy on this damning of all government agencies with the same tarbrush, since for all my adult life I've been employed only by the federal government, one or another state government, or one of several non-profit organizations), one of my sources about EPA and DHEC noted that the SE regional EPA office, which monitors North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida, has an excellent working relationship with the local agencies in three states, but not in the fourth. Indeed, this latter state not only has problems getting along with the EPA office, but there are nearly as many problems, errors, mistakes, and the like coming out of this agency as in all three of the other state agencies combined. Four guesses as to which state this is, and the first three don't count.

=+=+=Norm