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To: DLL who wrote (14447)4/22/1998 5:19:00 AM
From: Emile Vidrine  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 39621
 
ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED"

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May the Holy Spirit give you all a spirit of wisdom and understanding
as you read. We pray that the will of God be done and may He be
glorified in Jesus' name. Amen.
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Concerning Rom. 11:25-32. '"all Israel shall be saved"

The key verse to understand this group of verses is: "And so all Israel shall be
saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer,and shall turn
away ungodliness from Jacob."
Has the deliverer come? Yes!
Has He turned ungodliness from Jacob? Here is the key question and the problem? We
know that by the Spirit in our hearts that prophecy cannot fail. We know if God said He
will turn ungodliness from Jacob, then He will do it. God gave us these prophecies
hundreds of years before the Jesus' day. If we consider the Jews of today as Israel, then
it appears that the prophecies concerning "all Israel shall be saved" have failed since for two thousand years tens of million and probably hundreds of million of Jews have died without receiving Jesus. If the modern Jews are Israel, than it its clear that "all Israel has not been saved". Even if every Jew in the world today were to turn to Jesus, this verse would still not be fulfilled because many tens of millions died in the last 2000 years wihtout being saved! Has Gods' Word failed then? God
forbid. Or, have we been interpreting this verse according to worldly wisdom and knowledge rather than looking prayerfully in the SCritptures?
We Know that Jesus the Deliverer has come! His
work on the Cross and His Resurrection is complete. He has taken upon
Himself the sins of all men!! So, the question is, if this verse means what the "christian" zionist and "messianic Jews" are saying it means then Why are their people who
called themselves Jews today who have not been saved?? Does the presents of
these unsaved modern Jews contradict Gods' prophecy that "the
deliverer shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob". If the modern Jews are
really are from Jacob, then it appears that the prophecy has failed, but if these
modern Jews are not really Jews but rather only those "who say they are Jews
and are not, but are the Synagogue of Satan." as is written the Rev. 2:9 and
3:9, then the prophecy has not failed. That would mean that the modern Jews are simply people who follow the religon of modern Talmludic Judaism but are not the descendants and the spiritual heirs of the promises of Abraham.
I struggled with these verses for years until the Lord revealed His truth. God
answers the question in His Word. Turn to Rom. Ch.9 and read verses 4-8
carefully. Verse 6 unfolds the mystery. "Not as though the word of God hath
taken none effect. FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF
ISRAEL: When the light of this verse first hit me, I saw the whole picture.
Notice verse 8, "That is , They which are the children of the flesh, these are not
the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."
Now turn to Gal.,3:16: Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made.
He saith not, And to seeds, as of
many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ". God is telling us that
there are true Israelites and there are false Israelites. The way to recognize the
True Israelites who are in the New Covenant is to find those with the Faith of
Abraham which is FAITH in Jesus. This is the key to finding the Ture Israelite
in the Old Testament as well as the New. Whoever has the Faith of Abraham
are the People of God. It has never been a racial thing but alwaysa spiritual
thing.
WOW-----Who are the children of the Promise-- Those who have Faith in Jesus.
Now turn to Rom.11 and read verses 1-6. The Holy Spirit begins by "I say then,
Hath God cast away his people? God forbid." The only people God has ever
had are those who have had and have the Faith of Abraham. Now turn to verse
5. "Even so then at this present time also there are many according to the
election of grace." IT IS THAT REMNANT THAT IS "ALL OF ISRAEL"
PRAISE God, THAT IS THE ANSWER TO THE MYSTERY!!!
Just as in the days of Elijah there were only 7000 TRUE ISRAELITES-men of
faith- So in the days of Jesus there was all a Remnanat that were the True
Israel of God.(several hundred thousand Jews became Christians in the first
century).
Turn now to verse 7. "What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he
seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded." All of
the True Israelites in the generation of Jews during Jesus's ministry were
saved. This was the first wave of salvation--The Apostles and the disciples that
the inner group were all Jews. Then as the Apostles and disciples began to
preach, tens of thousands of Jews were saved as recoded by Acts. There were
several thousands saved in one day when Peter preached his famous sermon in
Acts Ch. 2. Read verse 40. "Then they that gladly received his word were
baptized; and the same day there were added unto them about thress thusand
souls." This verse gives us a glimpse of "ALL ISRAEL' in the process of being
saved. These waves of Jewish conversion continued until the destruction of the
Temple in 70 AD---this was the official end of the OLD COVENANT and the
end of Old Testament Judaism. We can see in the Scriputres that many many
tens of thousands were being saves. In ch 4 verse 32
it calls them a multitude. Turn to Acts 6:7. "and a great company of the priests
were obedient o the faith." We know if a great company of priests had been
coverted that their must have been tens of thusands of Jews being converted.
After these ALL OF TRUE ISRAEL were converted, they went out and bagan
to convert the whole world. It was these Jewish Apostles that went into the
pagan Rome and pagan Greece and pagan Europe etc. and converted our
ancestors. Praise God--God's Word has been fulfilled perfectly for these with
ears. All Israel Has been saved and ungodliness has been turned away from the
True Jacob. Going back to our original verse "and shall turn away ungodliness
from Jacob". The Lord Jesus Christ achieved this by dying on the Cross for the
sins of Jacob and all mankind and was rasided for their Justification . When the
true Jews the true sons of Jacob accepted Jesus their ungodliness was turned
away. The bad figs rejected Jesus and were destroyed as the old Temple
Judaims of the Old TEstament. After the conversion of the true Israelites or
true Jews, the real Jews separated themselves from the false Jews and through
the power of the Holy Spirit, established the Church. The
The Jews that rejected Jesus, the bad figs in Jeremiah's prophecy, went ahead
and established what God calls "THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN" in
Rev 2;9 and 3:9. Since God had destroyed the Temple, the Priesthood, the
Genealogies, the Ark of the Covenant and all the Temple furniture, the old
Temple Judaism no longer existd. The NEW COVENANT in Jesus' blood had
replaced the OLD COVENANT. The OLD COVENANT was now dead just
like the Old Covenant Temple religion. There was simply no more nead for a
worldly kingdom, a worldly king or the animal sacrifices for sin because the
eteranl King, High Priest, and eternal sacrifice was alive and sitting on His
throne sprinking the heavenly mercy seat and heavenly Ark of the Covenant
with the Blood of the eternal Lamb of God.
Hebrews 8:13 "In that he saith, a new covenant, he hath made the first old,
Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."
The old Covenant has indeed vanished away and been relplaced
with the glorious NEW COVENANT in JESUS' BLOOD.
------------------------
Romans 2

28: For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision,
which is
outward in
the flesh:

29: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart,
in the
spirit, and
not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
-------------------------
Galatians 3

16: Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to
seeds, as of
many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
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Galatians 3
29: And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to
the
promise.
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To: DLL who wrote (14447)4/22/1998 5:45:00 AM
From: Emile Vidrine  Respond to of 39621
 
"Do you believe G-d is finished with Isreal"

First we have to define what you mean by Israel. When you say Israel, you mean the modern Talmudic Jews. When I say Israel if either refer to the ancient people of God called the Hebrew people in the Old TEstament. The Old TEstament Jews are not the physical or spiritual ancestors as the modern Jews of today who follow the religon of modern Talmudic Judaism.

The Israel of God today, the true People of god, are the Christian people. God established this fact when He concluded His New Coveanant with the eternal Eternal Blood of His Son. All of the Israelites who were of the faith of Abraham accepted Jesus as their Lord and SAviour and went out into the world anointed by the Holy Spirit to establish the New Israel of God. For the first 20-30 years Christianity was composed of almost 100% Jews. These real Jews who had the faith of Abraham fulfilled the promises of God to their father Abraham by going out and converting people from every nation to this New Judaism or New Israel religion of God--Christianity. These early Christians Jews transformed their Synagogue worship into the Church Worship. It is these early Christian Jews who shaped the ancient Liturgical worship of Christianity. The ancient Orthodox Liturgy has survived to this day and still has a heavy "Jewish" or ancient synagogue "accent".

The Old Covenant is dead as Paul tells us in the eleventh chp of Hebrews. The ancient nation of Israel became the Christian nation and
the Temple Judaism of the OT with its sacrifice became the Christian Church offering up Jesus, the Lamb of God, as their eternal sacrifice for the sins of the whole world.



To: DLL who wrote (14447)4/22/1998 5:48:00 AM
From: Emile Vidrine  Respond to of 39621
 
"Will G-d keep his promise to them?"

God has already kept His promises to the real Jews--they were redeemed by their Messiah Jesus Christ and became the heirs of Eternal Life--eternal Joy, peace, love... We are living in the days of the New Covenant and you are trying to go back to the beggardly elements of the Old. Every modern Jew is also invited to become heirs of the promsies of Abraham that are all found in Jesus Christ.

Yes, and what a glorious redemption it was. Abraham became the Father of many nations as promised. The children of Abraham went out into the world and bore millions upoon millions of every tribe and nation and tongue. You will see all of these once more if you are washed in the Blood.



To: DLL who wrote (14447)4/22/1998 3:51:00 PM
From: Sidney Reilly  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 39621
 
Don,

You posted:
<<Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written>>

I have posted about this before and am sorry to still see this verse taken out of context. Jesus said to Nickodemus, a Jewish person, that he must be born again to see the kingdom of heaven. If all Israel were to be saved Jesus would have said he didn't have to worry about it, all Israel will be saved. Paul is talking about something that is being misunderstood. Paul wrote endlessly to Israelites that they had to be born again. He does not contradict that whole body of scripture by the one statement you are taking out of context. There is no free ride aside from coming to Jesus and being born again. Whoever rejects Jesus rejects God and has no hope regardless if they are Jew or Gentile..

Bob