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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Grainne who wrote (21230)	5/2/1998 6:57:00 PM
From: epicure	Respond to of 108807

I think no matter what your beliefs, each person must square their actions with his or her conscience. No matter what your superiors tell you, no matter what your religious leaders tell you, no matter what your government tells you, YOU know what is right and wrong for YOU to do. I think that is all Penni is saying. Some people find it easier to act in destructive and cruel ways using the cover of their religion or their patriotism, but the religion and the patriotism are not the cause. It is the will of these people to act in a cruel manner, and so they adopted a cause or belief that was hospitable to their desires. They are not excused because they acted with a group. If you put it down to group think- then you excuse the individual and that kind of thinking merely allows these kind of episodes to happen. Everyone is accountable.

To: Grainne who wrote (21230)	5/2/1998 7:46:00 PM
From: Rambi	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Hi CGB, I thought you'd like that quote. I think it makes an important differentiation and might be what you were trying to say about being a patriot and a critic! X said pretty much what I would say in answer to your question(and probably more clearly). I believe in personal responsibility. I don't see that following a leader or belief system in any way relieves a person of that responsibility and I'm having trouble understanding exactly what you mean when you say that behavior is based on more than individual decisions. An institution is nothing but individuals, each making his own choices, who have decided that they have beliefs or goals in common. Is there power in group behavior? Absolutely. Is it much harder to resist peer or authoritarian pressure? Certainly. Does that make it any less an individual choice? No. The Pope represents the Church and if terrible things were done under the auspices of the Catholic faith, then he is graciously apologizing in the name of the Church, as its titular head. But those things were only said or promoted by individuals making individual choices at that time. If they managed to drag along an entire religion, it is still each member's decision to go along with it or speak out against it. I think we make and accept far too many excuses for people because of the group to which they belong, and ask for too many apologies from others. Apologies, discussions, condemnation of the past, do not take the place of time spent now tutoring, teaching, volunteering, and giving individually. One individual to or for another. Small, not very glamorous, not printworthy. But ultimately the only answer. I won't take the blame for anything done two hundred years ago, I have no personal debt to pay for that. But I do have a responsibility to help teach inner city children to read, to drive meals to shut-ins, to use whatever gifts I have in some positive way for others. But only because I chose to, it's right for me, not because my religion or my government or anyone else tells me so. That's what I meant...if it's any clearer? penni