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To: mark silvers who wrote (15302)5/7/1998 8:05:00 AM
From: Chris land  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 39621
 
Mark,

Per your statement to DCF the scripture your referring to is found in the book of John. John 14:12. I will give you the opportunity to look it up for yourself for verification.

-Chris



To: mark silvers who wrote (15302)5/7/1998 7:02:00 PM
From: PROLIFE  Respond to of 39621
 
>>Why then did Jesus need to be sacrificed? For the sins of Adam and Eve? <<

(Heb 1:1-14 NIV)
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,

but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father " ? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"?

And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."

In speaking of the angels he says, "He makes his angels winds, his servants flames of fire."

But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.

You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy."

He also says, "In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.

They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment.

You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end."

To which of the angels did God ever say, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet"?

Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?



To: mark silvers who wrote (15302)5/7/1998 7:07:00 PM
From: PROLIFE  Respond to of 39621
 
(Heb 2:1-18 NIV)
We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away.

For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment,

how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him.

God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking.

But there is a place where someone has testified: "What is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man that you care for him?

You made him a little lower than the angels; you crowned him with glory and honor

and put everything under his feet." In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.

Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.

He says, "I will declare your name to my brothers; in the presence of the congregation I will sing your praises."

And again, "I will put my trust in him." And again he says, "Here am I, and the children God has given me."

Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death--that is, the devil--

and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants.

For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.

Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.




To: mark silvers who wrote (15302)5/7/1998 7:12:00 PM
From: PROLIFE  Respond to of 39621
 
(Heb 3:1-19 NIV)
Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess.

He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God's house.

Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself.

For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything.

Moses was faithful as a servant in all God's house, testifying to what would be said in the future.

But Christ is faithful as a son over God's house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast.

So, as the Holy Spirit says: "Today, if you hear his voice,

do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the desert,

where your fathers tested and tried me and for forty years saw what I did.

That is why I was angry with that generation, and I said, 'Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known my ways.'

So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.'"

See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.

But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.

We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.

As has just been said: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion."

Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt?

And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert?

And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed ?

So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

Mark, hope this helps a little about why Jesus had to be sacrificed.

dan



To: mark silvers who wrote (15302)5/7/1998 7:49:00 PM
From: PROLIFE  Respond to of 39621
 
>>No, I havent found that passage, I havent even had time to look. I was hoping that someone was familiar with it, and would know off of the top of their head.<<

John 14:12 thanks Chris

(John 14:12 NIV) I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Mark, remember Jesus is with his chosen 12 at this supper just before the passover. He does several things that they do not understand such as wash each mans feet, exposes Judas for what he is about to do, etc. After the Apostles had come back together after Jesus resurection, they started their ministries with power. They were able to do miracles, and I think the greater thing is IMO, they preached the good news with its final result. Jesus at the right hand of God, speaking for me and you.Plus many were greatly persecuted, and Jesus says those who are persecuted, are BLESSED.

Hope this helps,

dan




To: mark silvers who wrote (15302)5/7/1998 10:26:00 PM
From: O'Hara  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 39621
 
><>...Mark, you asked;...><>

Why then did Jesus need to be sacrificed?

A most considerate question.

First Mark, Jesus the Christ was a willing sacrifice.

John 10:17-18
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

OK, that being said, I'll get to the heart of your very poignant question.
Why then did Jesus need to be sacrificed?

Jesus sacrificed Himself so that we could be reconciled to God.

Two things , are necessary to effect a true sacrifice.
1. Laying on of hands of the offerer upon the sacrificial being, Lev.16:21.
This act of obedience was symbolic of 4 things
a.Confession...When a person receives Jesus the Christ as their Lord and Saviour, they are confessing that they are not without sin and need His righteousness.

b.Acceptance....In Lev. when the offerer also signifies by laying on of hands that he acknowledges that the offering to be for himself.

c.Transference....Now the offerer knows by divine intervention that his sins pass from himself to the sacrifice.

d.Identification....He identifies with the sacrifice as the sacrifice now has the offerer's sins upon it.

The second necessary ingredient for a sacrifice to be effective was, that the sacrificial animal must die. Its blood must be shed before the LORD. Nothing short of death and the spilling of its blood would render it an acceptable atonement.
And of course the sacrificial animal had to be without spot!

Consider the passover Lamb, a most instructive type of redemption. God said when I see the blood of the Lamb I will pass over you and none will die..... Atype of our Saviour to come.

And when He did come John the Baptist pointed to Him saying...
John 1:29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Lev 17:11
11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Heb 9:11-27
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you
21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

There is no high priest needed any more to offer, once a year, a sacrifice to God for the remission of sins as was once the case. We have a High Priest who did it once and for all...His name Is Jesus the Christ.

Rev 5:9
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Jesus's works and teachings here on earth would have all been in vain had He not completed His works at the cross. His only reason for coming to earth,was to reconcile us to God and the only way that could be accomplished was to be a sacrificial Lamb! A perfect, unblemished Lamb, whose blood needed to be shed for the sins of the world. It is what God required for the remission of sins. No other man was worthy to be that sacrifice but Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God.

Mark that is why it is so important for us to believe that Jesus was worthy to die for us. Just believing in Jesus is not enough. Believing He was a good person, a kind and tolerant guy, a holy prophet, or a wise man, is just not good enough! It is not even good enough to believe that He was sent by God.
We must believe that He was worthy to have died for us, and that the blood He shed was accepted by God for the remission of the sins of the world. And that there was no one else in the entire universe who was worthy but Him!

If there were no remission of sins except by the spilling of blood either by spotless lamb in the OT, or by spotless The Lamb in the NT...Jesus Himself...then we shall die with our sin... and we know that sin cannot exist in heaven. But God made a way for us...Praise His Holy name. That way is Jesus Christ.

That is why Paul said.
1 Cor 1:17-19
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Without the shedding of the blood, by the Lamb of God,...at the cross ....we have nothing!

And now you know the rest of the story!
Good day.

Shalom...><>