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Gold/Mining/Energy : SOUTHERNERA (t.SUF) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: GULL who wrote (1136)	5/16/1998 1:23:00 PM
From: Confluence	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 7235

Mr. Gull, Here is my response to your questions: G:To what do I owe the honor of being addressed as Mr.Gull? C:Simple civility G:Confluence ,who started all the baiting and slander? C:It takes two to tango G:Refer to all the postings,just because I had a different viewpoint ,I became the target of all sorts of attacks. C:The motivation of others seemed clear; yours was opposite G:Who really cares who I am? C:Agreed G:I note that no-one has EVER questioned the integrity or background of anyone one this thread apart from GULL and INFOMAN? C:This thread was initiated by supporters of SUF as a place to chat. How would you expect to be treated when your motivations seem obvious to these supporters? Here are your responses to my questions: C:Why do the "heirs" not want an equity position in Marsfontein? Is there not the possibility that other pipes/fissures exist? G:The heirs were never offered equity in Marsfontein. C:The "heirs" were not offered money for Marsfontein, yet asked for it. It is my understanding that a royalty, like an NSR in Canada, was talked about. Why would someone want 15 million bucks now and preclude the possibility of much, much more in the short future? Timing. C:Who had a meeting earlier this week with Mr. Maduna? And why? G:I haven't any idea of exactly who Minister Maduna saw last week. He is a very busy man and is constantly seeing all sorts of people. C:Some of Nicky's people. Apparently, Nicky himself is not in RSA. C:How did it come pass that the mineral rights for Marsfontein were not bequeathed by four different individuals, when other mineral rights were a part of their estates? Were the Marsfontein rights sold previously? If not, can this be proved conclusively? G:I am quoting directly from INFOMAN as regards the bequeathment of the mineral rights etc...his DD is a matter of public record. C:This is not a place for a public record. A public statement requires an attributable author. G:"C BACKGROUND: MINERAL RIGHTS AND HEIRS 1. Several years back J Kruger, JF Naude, FAJ Grimbeek and H Skok took transfer of the relevant portions of the farm Marsfontein. They immediately sold the farm, subject to the reservation of the mineral rights in their favour. At that time, it was not necessary to take out a separate title deed in respect of mineral rights. 2. The condition reserving the mineral rights was carried forward every time the property was transferred. The latest title deeds containing the reservation was registered over the period from 1981 - 1983, in favour of the South African Development Trust (the owner of the property). 3. As a result of the manner in which mineral rights were registered prior to 1937, it was impossible for an Executor to do a mineral search if he did not have the description of the property. This is an everyday occurrence and the Deeds Registries Act specifically makes provision for these cases in Section 71 thereof. 4. It happens often that estates have to be reopened to reflect additional mineral rights that have not been dealt with when the estate was administered, because no separate records were kept by the Deeds Office in respect thereof. 5. When the heirs came to know about the mineral rights, the records of the Deeds Office were scrutinised and it appeared that the mineral rights still vested in the estates of the original four mineral right holders. 6. The Master of the Supreme Court appointed a new Executor in each estate to deal with the Mineral Rights. 7. In the first instance, the Executor applied for separate Certificates of Mineral Rights. This was done from the 1981 - 1983 title deeds, where the Mineral Rights were still reserved. 8. After extensive research into the correct procedure to be followed, NGS, a realisation company, was formed. A valuation of the Mineral Rights was done by the DME as at date of death of the four deceased holders. The Master of the Supreme Court exercised his discretion and consented to the sale of the Mineral Rights to NGS. Transfer duty was paid and a formal application was made to the Deeds Office to expedite the registration of the transfer of the Mineral Rights." C:A very detailed list of stuff, but not an answer to any of the above three questions. Again, what is the motivation for not answering the question simply? Why obfuscate? G:I believe that this answers many questions regarding wether or not the mineral rights belong to the current heirs and proves that they could not have been disposed of as they then would have been registered in the new owners name. C:Are the records from 30, 40, 70 years ago that reliable? G:Point 8 also answers nempela as to the R2800 figure which he tried to imply was a greedy ploy by the heirs. C:A valuation was also done by DME as to the value of the mineral rights for Marsfontein. Their figure was 980,000 Rand, about 4 times the values placed on surrounding mineral rights (presently being mined ), and this amount was set aside by SUF/Randgold at the DME's request last fall. How come only the figures beneficial to the "heirs" are used? G:Amazing co-incidence that Vaughn thought that SUF would take a stand and voila:a posting by CJ in Business Day and nempela on this thread both using similar phrases etc... C:Many shareholders speak regularly with SUF management to ask questions and express opinions. The loyal shareholders on this thread are probably in regular contact with management. Didn't you talk with them as part of your DD? Why not? C:Has DeBeers actually paid any money to the "heirs"? If so, how much and when? If not, why not? Why would DeBeers wait until the legal action was over? Surely their advisors understand RSA mining laws and precedent. Wouldn't they gamble a few million dollars on this issue, with such a large potential windfall? G:The agreement with De Beers is confidential. C:It seems pretty simple. Cash for rights. Why the stealth. And why still? G:However no-one has really read the posting by INFOMAN on the lengths that the heirs went to in trying to avoid litigation by offering SUF the opportunity on 8th January and thereafter to settle the whole issue amicably. C:Assuming that this posting was true. Perhaps some of it was and some was one side's view of events. That is debatable, although many counterpoints to Infoman's discourse have been discussed. Call SUF and ask. C:Is DeBeers motivation really a couple of million carats from M1, or might they see other developments? G:De Beers are the major force in the diamond industry and I am sure that their viewpoint and motivations are globally orientated and long term. C:Yes! De Beers is great. They control the selling (at wonderful prices) of essentially worthless rocks. And that is what this is all about. Lets get everyone doing what they do best: De Beers selling/marketing diamonds, SUF exploring/finding/mining diamonds and the "heirs" taking the money and going away. Thanks for your responses. Notable was your lack of response to your motivation regarding SUF shares. The inference is that your motivations are aligned with the "heirs", although it really doesn't matter. Lets see how this all works out Confluence C: PS Any bets on M1 being mined before July? G: P.S.I am sure that De Beers will start mining asap. C:Doubtful. Remember, they bought into a company who brought an interdict naming Mr. Maduna before the courts. If it gets to court, one side wins, the other appeals. This drags and drags, unless Mr. Maduna uses Section 24 to expropriate, something unlikely to favour the people that are undermining (no pun intended) his power. So negotiation is the only way Marsfontein gets mined this decade