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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: O'Hara who wrote (15828)5/17/1998 12:38:00 PM
From: Sam Ferguson  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 39621
 
It seemed to me that the time had come when women should know for themselves what the Bible teaches for them and what the pulpit has upheld; and although I cannot soil my lips nor your ears with much of
it, there is enough, I think, that I may use to make any self-respecting, pure woman blush that she has sustained it by word or act.

The Bible teaches that a father may sell his daughter for a slave, [Ex.xxi. 7.] that he may sacrifice her purity to a mob, [Judges xix. 24.] and that he may murder her, and still be a good father and a holy man. It teaches that a man may have any number of wives; that he may sell them, give them away, or change them around, and still be a perfect gentleman, a good husband, a righteous man, and one of God's most intimate friends; and that is a pretty good position for a beginning. It teaches almost every infamy under the heavens for
woman, and it does not recognize her as a self-directing, free human being. It classes her as property, just as it does a sheep: and it forbids her to think, talk, act, or exist, except under conditions and limits defined by some priest.
If the Bible were strictly followed, women and negroes would still be publicly bought and sold in America. If it were believed in as it once was, if the Church had the power she once had, I should never see the light of another day, and your lives would be made a hell for sitting here to-night. The iron grasp of superstition would hold you and your children forever over the bottomless pit of religious persecution, and cover your fair fame with infamous slander, because you dared to sit here and hear me strike a blow at infinite
injustice.
Every injustice that has ever been fastened upon women in a Christian country has been ";authorized by the Bible"; and riveted and perpetuated by the pulpit. That seems strong language, no doubt; but I shall give you an opportunity to decide as to its truth. I will now bring my witnesses. They are from the ";inspired word"; itself, and therefore must be all that could be desired.
I will read you a short passage from Exodus xx. 22; xxi. 7-8:22 And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of
Israel, Ye have seen that I talked with you from heaven. * * *
7. And if a man sell his daughter to be a maid-servant, she shall not go out as the men-servants do.
8. If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.The Lord doesn't object to a man selling his daughter, but if any one thing makes him angrier than another it is to have her go about as the men-servants do after she is sold. On a little point like that he is absolutely fastidious. You may here notice that God took the trouble to come down from heaven to tell the girl what not to do after she was sold. He forgot to suggest to her father that it might be as well not to sell her at all. He forgot that. But in an important conversation one often overlooks little details. The next is Joshua xv. 16-17:16 And Caleb said, He that smiteth Kirjath-sepher, and taketh it, to him will I give Achsah my daughter to wife.17 And Othniel the brother of Caleb [and consequently the girl's uncle]
took it: and he gave him Achsah his daughter to wife.Please to remember that the said Caleb was one of God's intimates -- a favorite with the Almighty. The girl was not consulted; the father paid off his
warriors in female scrip. The next is Gen. xix. 5-8 5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us that we may know them.6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him.7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.8 Behold now, I have two daughters * * * * let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes; only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.These men had come under the shadow of Lot's roof for protection, it seems, and Lot felt that his honor demanded that he should shield them even at the cost of the purity and safety of his own daughters! Do you know I have always had a mild curiosity to know what his daughters were under the shadow of his roof for. It could not have been for protection, I judge, since Lot was one of God's best friends. He was on all sorts of intimate terms with the Deity -- knew things were going to happen before they came -- was the only man good enough to save from a doomed city -- the only one whose acts pleased God and this act seems to have been particularly satisfactory. These men were ";angels of God"; who required this infamy for their protection! If it takes all the
honor out of a man when he gets to be an angel, they may use my wings for a feather-duster.

Now here is a little property law. Num. xxvii.6 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,8 And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a man die,and have no son, then ye shall cause his inheritance to pass unto his daughter. And our law works a little that way yet; being the result of ecclesiastical law it naturally would.

Next we have Num. xxxvi.:8 And every daughter that possesseth an inheritance in any tribe of the children of Israel, shall be wife unto one of the family of the tribe of her father, that the children of Israel may enjoy every man the inheritance of his fathers.9 Neither shall the inheritance remove from one tribe to another tribe;
but every one of the tribes of the children of Israel shall keep himself to his own inheritance.10 Even as the LORD commanded Moses, so did the daughters of Zelophehad.That is all the women were for -- articles of conveyance for property.Save the land, no matter about the girls. Now these silly women actually believed that God told Moses whom they had to marry just because Moses said so!
I tell you, ladies and gentlemen, it is not safe to take heavenly
advice fpound in the inspired scriptures.



To: O'Hara who wrote (15828)5/17/1998 1:42:00 PM
From: pz  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 39621
 
Hi Shalom,

Just to clear this up, Sam calls me cuZn because that is my nickname on mIRC, in the area where out stock group meets during the trading day. He is not my cousin...ggg

Great to "see" you Shalom.

Paul




To: O'Hara who wrote (15828)5/17/1998 2:50:00 PM
From: Sam Ferguson  Respond to of 39621
 
Ho-Hum just some more of that inspired scripture

FROM MOSES TO PAUL

But now we have come to "St."; Paul and his ideas on the woman
question. He worked the whole problem by simple proportion and found that man stands in the same relation to woman as God stands to man. That is, man is to woman as God is to man -- and only a slight remainder. I'm not going to misrepresent this gifted saint. I shall let him speak for himself. He does it pretty well for a saint, and much more plainly than they usually do.

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body. -- Ephesians v.
The husband is the savior of the wife! Pretty slim hold on heaven for most women, isn't it? And then suppose she hasn't any husband."; Her case is fatal.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything. -- Ephesians v.
Paul was a modest person in his requirements.
9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array. -- I Timothy ii.
It does seem as if anybody would know that braided hair was wicked; and as to ";gold and pearls and costly array,"; all you have to do to prove the infallibility of Paul -- and what absolute faith Christians have in it! -- is to go into any fashionable church and observe the absence of all such sinfulness:
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the
man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the
transgression. -- I Timothy ii.
According to the reasoning of verse 13 man should be subject to all the lower animals, because they were first formed, and then Adam. Verse 14 tells us that Adam sinned knowingly; Eve was deceived, so she deserves punishment. Now I like that. If you commit a crime understandingly it is all right. If you are deceived into doing it you ought to be damned. The law says, ";The criminality of an act resides in the intent; ";but more than likely St. Paul was not up in Blackstone and did not use Coke.
This next is St. Peter, and I believe this is one of the few topics upon which the infallible Peter and the equally infallible Paul did not disagree:Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. -- 1 Peter iii.
I should think that would be a winning card. If the conversation of a wife, coupled with a good deal of fear, would not convert a man, he is a hopeless case. But here is Paul again, in all his mathematical glory, and mortally afraid that women won't do themselves honor.3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoreth his head. 5 But every woman that prayeth or prophosieth with her head uncovered,dishonoreth her head; for that is even all one as if she were shaven.6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man: 8 For the man is not of the woman, but the woman of the man.9 Neither was the man created for the woman, but the woman for the man.-- 1 Cor. xi.
And that settles it, I suppose. But what on earth was man created for? I should not think it could have been just for fun.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches; for it is not permitted unto them to speak but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.85 And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home:for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. -- 1 Cor. xiv.
That is a principle that should entitle St. Paul to the profound
admiration of women. And yet, when I come to think of it, I don't know which one gets the worst of that either. Whenever you want to know anything, ask your husband, at home! No wonder most husbands don't have time to stay at home much. No wonder they have to see a man so often. It would unseat any man's reason if he lived in constant fear that he might, any minute, be required to explain to a woman of sense, how death could have been brought into this world by Eve, when
every one knows that long before man could have lived upon this earth animals lived and died. It would make any man remember that he had to ";catch a car"; if he were asked suddenly to explain the doctrine of the Trinity. I would not blame the most sturdy theologian for remembering that it was club night, if his wife were to ask him, unexpectedly, how Nebuchadnezzar, with his inexperience,
could digest grass with only one stomach, when it takes four for the oxen that are used to it. That may account, however, for his hair turning to feathers. I don't believe St. Paul could have realized what a diabolical position he was placing husbands in, when he told wives to ask them every time they wantedto know anything -- unless he wanted to make marriage unpopular. There is one thing certain, he was careful not to try it himself, which looks much as if he had some realizing sense of what he had cut out for husbands to do, and felt that there were some men who would rather be drafted -- and then send a
Substitute.
But why are his commands not followed to-day? Why are not the words,sister, mother, daughter, wife, only names for degradation and dishonor? Because men have grown more honorable than their religion, and the strong arm of the law, supported by the stronger arm of public sentiment, demands greater justice than St. Paul ever dreamed of. Because men are growing grand enough to recognize the fact that right is not masculine only, and that justice knows no sex. And because the Church no longer makes the laws. Saints have been retired from the legal profession. I can't recall the name of a single one who is practicing law now. Have any of you ever met a saint at the bar?
Women are indebted to-day for their emancipation from a position of hopeless degradation, not to their religion nor to Jehovah, but to the justice and honor of the men who have defied his commands. That she does not crouch to-day where Saint Paul tried to bind her, she owes to the men who are grand and brave enough to ignore St. Paul, and rise superior to his God.
Now just stop and think about it. Don't you think that if a God had come down and talked to Moses he would have had something more important to discuss than the arrangement of window curtains and the cooking of a sheep? Since Moses was the leader of God's people, their lawgiver, the guardian of their morals,don't you think that the few minutes of conversation could have been better spent in calling attention to some of the little moral delinquencies of Moses himself? Don't you think it would have been more natural for an infinite and
just ruler to have mentioned the impropriety of murdering so many men, and degrading so many young girls to a life worse than that of the vilest quarter of any infamous dive, than to have occupied the time in trivial details about a trumpery jewel-box? Since God elected such a man as Moses to guide and govern his people, does it not seem natural that he would have given more thought to the moral worth and practices of his representative on earth, than to the particular age at which to kill a calf? If he were going to take the trouble to say anything, would it not seem more natural that he should say something important?
In his numerous chats with Solomon, don't you think he could have added somewhat to that gentleman's phenomenal wisdom by just hinting to him that he had a few more wives than were absolutely necessary? He had a thousand we are told, which leaves Brigham Young away behind. Yet there are Christians to-day who teach their children that Solomon was the wisest man who ever lived, and that Brigham Young was very close to the biggest fool. It is not strange that
some of these children infer that the trouble with Brigham was that he had not wives enough, and that if he had only married the whole state of Massachusetts he and Solomon would now occupy adjoining seats on the other shore, and use the same jew's-harp?
Ever think Clinton may be using his power of office to procure women to please his God like Moses, David and all of God's chosen? Yet the same Christian right organization says he is sinful and should be impeached. As Alan keps telling me you can't have it both ways.
Do you believe for one moment that a God ever talked with any man and told him to murder a whole nation of men, to steal their property, to butcher in cold blood the mothers, and to give the young girls to a camp of brutal soldiers -- and that he helped to do it? Do you believe any God ever told a man to give so many of those girls to one tribe, so many to another, and to burn so many as an offering to himself? Do you believe it? I don't. Would you worship him if he
had? I would not.
And yet it is true that he did help in such work, or else the word of Moses is not worth a nickel. God did this, or else our religion is founded upon a fraud. He did it, or orthodoxy is a mistake. He did it, or the Bible is an imposition. If it is true, no woman should submit to such a fiend for an hour; if it is false, let her unclasp the clutches of the superstition which is built
upon her dishonor and nourished by her hand.
They say it is a shame for a woman to attack the Bible. I say she is the one who should do it. It is she who has everything to gain by its overthrow. It is she who has everything to loose by its support. They tell me it is the word an will of God. I do not, I cannot, believe it! And it does seem to me that nothing but lack of moral perception or mental capacity could enable any human being who was honest (and not seared) to either respect or believe in such a
God.


THE FRUIT OF THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE

Some time ago I went to hear a noted minister, who preached a sermon about the ";fruit of the tree of knowledge"; to a congregation composed, as most congregations are, chiefly of women. Yet his sermon was a monument of insult, bigotry, and dogmatic intolerance that would have done honor to a witch-hunter several centuries ago. That women will subject themselves to such insults week after week, and that there are still men who will condescend to offer them, is a sad commentary upon their self-respect as well as upon the degrading influence of their religion.