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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Chris land who wrote (16568)	5/27/1998 11:59:00 AM
From: Ann Corrigan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Hi Chris, Believe I owe you an apology. If you were the person who posted a few days ago that you listed the Promisekeepers "promises":o) and asked my opinion, I apologize for not answering that post. At the time there was a flurry of posts flying & I did make a brief search for the list because I'm curious to see them, but alas did not find them & even neglected to tell you so. After sending this message, I'll check for the list again. As for Bill McCartney, his life story is interesting. From an interview with him on TV a few months ago, here is my impression: Correct me if this is wrong. He was accused of igoring his players criminal & brutal date rape. Then the media started to pummel his inaction to discipline them severely and as a result he lost his football coaching position. I'm not a sports fan, so let me know if these are not the facts. In any event, it appears once he lost his coaching job he took the same skills he had used in that postion to form another team. A religious-inspired team. A person has to ask themselves if this wasn't taking adversity & finding a way to turn it into an opportunity for ones-self. Now, if he's sincere. Just wants to encourage better male/female relationships(with the woman treated as an equal in every way) then I'm all for it. Haven't investigated there motives any deeper than that. I'm all for anyone who is sincere and not just promoting there own ambition. I'll look for those 7 promises. Ann

To: Chris land who wrote (16568)	5/27/1998 12:52:00 PM
From: PROLIFE	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39621

You know Chris, it is as you say. The badgering continues. And you know what? Chances are that the national org. will close,(if not already) But Bill Mccartney is not the issue. CHANGING MENS LIVES was and is the issue. ANd I have seen the proof that it has done that. Can it be said that all the doctrine of PK was perfect??? ....NO there is no one who has not fallen short of the Glory of God. Can it be said Bill McCartney is perfect.......oh far from it....he is a man...... Can it be said that God has used this for good?/........YES YES YES YES YES.......I have seen it......not at rallys but in HOMES and CHURCHES........ MEN RECOMMITTED TO THEIR FAMILIES AND CHURCHES......... There is a point to clear up.Someone said Bill Mc. had to resign from Colo. then he started PK was not true. PK was established in prayer in 1990. Bill Mccartney did not resign from Colo. until Nov. 1994. So saying he had to resign and then founded this PK vehicle to have a job is not true. Another good point that PK has done good. Look who screams the loudest........ :o) God Bless You dan

To: Chris land who wrote (16568)	5/27/1998 2:34:00 PM
From: Grainne	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39621

Chris, I don't think the intent of all the men who have attended Promise keeper rallies should be attacked in any way. Obviously, if this is meeting a spiritual need that men have, there is at least the promise of some growth on an individual level. I did share earlier some news articles about the organization's similarity and attachment to the very right wing Christian political movement. I believe everyone should at least be honest and admit that part of their platform is very negative towards feminists and adamantly against homosexuals, regardless of the positive parts about strengthening the family. Here is an article from the Washington Post I found: Did Some of the Promise Keepers Bare Their Souls at a Strip Club? By Ann Gerhart and Annie Groer Tuesday, October 7, 1997; Page C03 The Washington Post A group galvanizes public attention, and you just can't be sure who wants to glom on. Friday night, a group of men wearing Promise Keepers buttons stopped by Joanna's 1819 Club to check out the talent. ("We call them ladies here at Joanna's," said the strip club's owner, Nick Addams. "We wear long dresses, we try to be presentable and neat and attractive.") About six or seven of these ladies were dancing, and the group of 12 to 15 men were well-behaved, had a couple of drinks and acted generously. "I did see some of them go up to tip, but I didn't try to keep a tally," Addams said. "The reason we knew who they were was because they wore little buttons." "Who is to say what the reason behind the situation is?" Steve Chavis, Promise Keepers national communications director, told The Post's Gabriel Escobar. "I'm not going to say it was the work of provocateurs, misidentifying themselves for some nefarious kind of purpose." After considering the matter further, he offered the following: "A lot of guys don't have it all together, and sexual temptation is rampant among men. . . . If they were there Friday night, I hope they went to the Mall Saturday and then didn't return there Saturday night." Asked if the purpose of the drop-in may have been religious, he reminded us that Jesus did not hesitate to preach to "publicans and sinners." "But," he said, "I'm not sure He would go to a strip joint and visually take in the bodies of other women." And here is a very long url which is partly interviews, partly news articles, and partly comments by people in Colorado who are familiar with the Promsise Keepers (and are generally quite alarmed by them). Obviously this is not generally favorable to the Promise Keepers--I am not claiming that it is objective. But certainly all sides of issues should be considered, if we are going to try to be fair and find out the truth. In this series, McCartney himself is quoted saying homosexuality is an abomination of God, at a rally. I just see quite a lot of hatred among the potentially positive aspects of Promise Keepers: linkline.com