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To: O'Hara who wrote (16697)5/30/1998 4:44:00 AM
From: Emile Vidrine  Respond to of 39621
 
The Holy Spirit and the New Testament are the only sound instruments in correctly interpreting the Old Testament prophecies and promises. It is the Holy Spirit and the revelations in the New Testament that give light and understanding to the Old Testament. The New opens and reveals the Old and the Old is the foundation of the New. The history of the Christian Church is a history of continuous inspiration by the Holy Spirit where both the Old T and the New T are made alive.

Gen 17:4-7
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.


Shalom's carnal interpretation of these Scriptures.
(notice the focus and reliance on personal human wisdom and preconceived ideas about Zionism and modern Judaism being the objects of Old Testament prophecies rather than Christ and His Church as is shown in the New Testament. To the carnal mind, everthing is fulfilled in the flesh. The prophecies about Jesus the Messiah hidden in all the Old T. are symbols and spiritual prophecies that found their fulfillment in Christ and not in a carnal and worldly kingdom desired by the Pharisees and Jews who rejected Jesus. Like the Pharisees in Jesus's day, Shalom is only concerned with a fleshly and worldly kingdom and is blind to the spiritual reality of the Kingdom of God that Christ has established 2000 years ago and that continues in its glory today and forever.)

Shalom's words with my commentary:
"Let it be noted that this covenant it is said it Hebrews 6:13-20 that because God had sworn to it by an oath and because God cannot lie, the covenant is immutable.(Your false interpretation has well been noted, Shalom. The entire book of Heb. is to show that Christ and His Christian Church--the New Covenant People--have fulfilled the promises. Again, the eyes of Shalom's heart are closed to the spiritual reality of the New Covenant that Paul is talking about in Heb.s)

This covenant was unalterable, unchangeable, and everlasting, which means it must still exist today.(Yes, that is true Shalom, it does exist today, but it exists in the holy Body of Christ the Christian People and not in your demon inspired Zionism and Anglo-Israel Identity cult.) Read the entire covenant in Gen. Chapter 17.(You need to read the entire New Testament, and believing what you read.) You will find that it not only concerned the ownership of all the Land from the river Euphrates to the river Nile, but, overshadowing all else, it was a covenant "to be unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, in their generation for ever and ever.(It is just like a false teacher and cultist to have his mind on worldly and carnal things while God is speaking of spiritual realities in the Kingdom of God . You are a man of the flesh, Shalom.)

Note that the covenant was made not only with Abraham for his lifetime, but also with his seed forever, through Isaac (Gen.17:8-24 and Rom.9:7-9)and through Isaac's son Jacob.(Again your carnality surfaces, Shalom. It is not the sons of the flesh who inherit the promises but the sons of the spirit in Christ Jesus.)
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I. Abraham becomes the father of many nations through Christ and and the Christian people.

THE PROMISES

Gen. 4..As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5. Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.


THE FULFILLMENT

Gal. 3
6: Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7: Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8: And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9: So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.


The many nations who converted to Christ over the last 2000 years clearly fulfill these Scriptures according to the precepts of the Scriptures. The inheritance of the children include all the nations of the earth. Ancient Israel and Palestine were only symbolic of the whole earth as God's vineyard.
It is the Holy Spirit who gave St. Paul this revelation. Shalom has attemptd to reduced these Scriptures to an unscriptural and fleshly understanding.

II. The promises of Abraham fulfilled in Christ. The promises of Abraham were made to his SEED which is Jesus Christ. All the promises of God were to be fulfilled in Chirst and His Body--the Christian.

THE PROMISE
Gen. 17 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed (Jesus Christ) after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed (Jesus) after thee.

THE FULFILLMENT

Gal. 3:
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
6: Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7: Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8: And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9: So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

IICor.1
19: For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
20: For all the promises of God in him(Jesus) are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Gal. 3
14: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Romans 9
6: Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8: That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the SEED.

Rom. 2
28: For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


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To: O'Hara who wrote (16697)5/30/1998 5:57:00 AM
From: Emile Vidrine  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 39621
 
Robert and all Christians, I thought you might enjoy this.

A CREED FOR THOSE WHO HAVE SUFFERED
I asked God for strength, that I might achieve.
I was made weak, that I might learn humbly to obey..
I asked for health, that I might do great things.
I was given infirmity, that I might do better things.
I asked for riches, that I might be happy.
I was given poverty, that I might be wise.
I asked for power, that I might have the praise of men.
I was given weakness, that I might feel the need of God.
I asked for all things, that I might enjoy life.
I was given life, that I might enjoy all things...
I got nothing I asked for -- but everything I hoped for.
Almost despite myself, my unspoken prayers were answered.
I am, among men, most richly blessed!
Roy Campanella



To: O'Hara who wrote (16697)5/30/1998 10:23:00 PM
From: Robert E. Hall  Respond to of 39621
 
Greetings Shalom, and all who love the Lord Jesus Christ. Thank you for your post. I have been busy all day with family and will gladly respond tomorrow to your post. May God grant us all grace to see and accept His counsel according to the Holy Spirit who will always lead us into truth. Robert



To: O'Hara who wrote (16697)5/31/1998 1:23:00 PM
From: Robert E. Hall  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 39621
 
Greeting Shalom, I agree with you partly with your statement and would say that the Abrahamic covenant was not conditional on man , unlike the Old Covenant which was conditional on mans behaviour. I think where we do not agree is the differences between the the Abramic covenant and the Old Covenant with respect to the New Covenant. The Abramic Covenant, made to Abraham ( Gen. 12:3 .) was unconditional on man keeping his side of the Covenant. This promise made to him was carried by Israel as they walked with God under the Old Covenant. Israel would be the vehicle used by God to bring this Covenant into fruition This was the beginning of an eternal Covenant promised to Abraham and his seed, Isaac, Jacob...............and realized in The Lord Jesus Christ. Indeed Hebrews 6 talks about this Abrahamic Covenant realized in the Lord Jesus Christ, and called the New Covenant. This promise in Hebrews 6 is not talking about the Old Covenant that God instituted with Israel, who so designed it to show His people that no matter how hard they tried they could not in themselves obey fully the Laws of God. Again I would ask you to consider Genesis 17 in its entirety. God says to Abraham that He would establish with Him and his descendants Isaac, Jacob..........David........Jesus Christ an everlasting Covenant, ( Gen 17:7). Also Gen 17:8, the land is promised as an " everlasting " possession. We know Shalom, that according to Genisis 17, circumcision was an " everlasting " physical ordinance instituted by God to identify His people. We also know that this physical " circumcision " has been transcended by a spiritual " circumcision " under the New Covenant, and circumcision now, is of the heart, by the Spirit of God. We can see now then that this word everlasting does not carry the same meaning to us as it did back then. Similiarly, Passover was to be celebrated as an everlasting ordinance with the children of Israel, but again we see that this Passover meal has been transcended by the final Passover, the bread of Life , the Lord Jesus Christ. Please keep in mind Shalom , that Abraham was not looking for a piece of real estate, He never did have it. On a different note Adam lived in a physical world of beauty before his rebellion,the land was free from sin and the curse. Jesus Christ not only gives us " Eternal Life " , something that Adam never had but He also gives us a " Land " free from sin and the curses. Hebrews 12:22 "We have come to Mount Zion , the New Jerusalem " when we were born into the kingdom of God. << so the House of Israel, the throne of David, and the everlasting covenant must be in existance today>>. The house of Israel since Calvary is the Church of the Firstborn ( Jesus), the throne of David has the Lord Jesus Christ seated upon it and the everlasting Covenant( Abrahamic.......Davidic......New Covenant) is in existance forever. Hope you can undertand Shalom what I believe the scriptures teach. Grace and peace to you and the Israel of God . Robert