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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Emile Vidrine who wrote (16938)6/3/1998 6:09:00 PM
From: Grainne  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 39621
 
<<No one can be well behaved in the heart without the Holy Spirit and the Grace of God through Jesus.>>

This statement is simply absurd, Emile. There are people who are "well behaved in the heart" who have know absolutely nothing of the Holy Spirit, the Grace of God, or Jesus, or have experienced but later rejected Christianity. One of the main things I have been trying to say since I started posting here is that essential goodness, brotherly love, mental health and positive spirituality obviously come from a constellation of factors like plenty of love and acceptance in childhood, good prenatal nutrition, avoidance of head injuries, consistent and gentle discipline, and having parents who are good moral examples.

That certainly dos not mean that Christians cannot be wonderful people. But it does definitely show that Christianity is not simply wonderful, not THE answer. What did it do for this person, and the children whose lives he ruined? I would assume that a Bishop would somehow be acquainted with the Holy Spirit, the Grace of God, and Jesus:

Bishop Quits--
Admits Molesting
5 Boys in Florida

Chronicle News Service
June 3, 1998

West Palm Beach, Fla.--Bishop J. Keith Symons announced his resignation yesterday as spiritual leader of the Catholic diocese based in Palm Beach, Fla., admitting that he sexually molested five boys early in his long career as a priest.

Symons, 65, is the highest-ranking American Catholic to be forced out of church office for molestation of minors. His resignation is believed to be the first by a U.S. bishop for such conduct.

Pope John Paul II accepted his resignation Monday, moving with uncharacteristic speed to name Bishop Robert N. Lynch of St. Petersburg the temporary administrator over the 200,000 Catholics in the five-county diocese.

Lynch said the church became aware of Symons' abusive past five weeks ago when one of the victims came forward to an undisclosed church official. Symons admitted to assaulting him.

Lynch refused to specify where or when the abuse occurred, but said there were at least five victims in three churches--all boys, all parishoners and probably all altar boys.

"I have prayed each day for these persons and their families," Symons said in a statement in which he asked for prayers and forgiveness. "It is a memory with which we have lived far too long."



To: Emile Vidrine who wrote (16938)6/6/1998 8:12:00 AM
From: Raymond James Norris  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 39621
 
Emile :

The Moslems Arabs turned from their Christian heritage in the seventh, eighth, and ninth centuries and now they and their children are reaping what they sowed. It's a similar story to modern Talmudic Judaism.

Each time I read your posts of your knowledge of Islam, I get a chuckle. I just don't understand how someone can be so rooted in stereotypes and things he's heard on T.V. without regard to the fact of what the Muslims, themselves, say they believe.

Okay, let's begin with your above phrase.....

The Muslim Arabs turned from their Christian heritage in the 7th, 8th, and 9th centuries?? LOL!!! My dear Emile, the entire Arab nations, at that time, were polytheists and satan worshippers. Everyone of them. There were few, if any, Christian Arabs that lived in that time in that area.

Mecca in the 6th century, used to house 360 idols. Yes, 360 of them!! The entire nation was dominated by the strong control the polytheists had. This isn't opinion. This is historical fact.

And then Muhammad received his revelation and began preaching the worship of One God. This illiterate man from a small town preaching these words! The Arabs did not stand for it. Many death attempts were made on his life. He was beaten, spit upon, and persecuted. Not only that, anyone who followed him was tortured. Many died.....

Muhammad and his small group of followers were driven from Mecca for all their acts.

So, looking back at the history, Muhammad in his lifespan turned a nation completely devoted to idol worshipping and polytheism to obedient servants of God. Servants that worshipped the same God as you do Emile. I know that must scare the heck out of you - that Muslims worship your God. And maybe you should be worried that you worship theirs - since there is only One God, we all worship that same God. Anyone who tries to deny this is clearly doing it out of spite for the religion.

Much of the Moslem world in Asia Minor, the Middle East, and Northern Africa were once Christians. The majority deliberately chose the darkness and falsehoods of Mohammad the false prophet over the Light and Life of Jesus.

If I were not understanding, your posts would insult me beyond measure. Your words are harsh and you are the most inconsiderate person of others' beliefs that I have ever met.

But to concentrate on your ignorance ignores the issues you bring up. So, I'll choose to ignore your ignorance and frivolous remarks so that I may answer your questions (even though I know I cannot supply you with an answer you will ever accept).

There is something I want to let you know since you feel so superior to this man whom you speak of with such hatred. This goes back to the Qur'an and the question of demonic origins.

The Qur'an gives itself many titles. One of these titles is "The Clear Argument."

What does that mean? It means that the Book claims to have a reply to anyone that may charge it.

For anyone who has read the Qur'an, you'll know this to be true. The Qur'an gives many statements such as, "Do they say such and such?" and then replies to that question with, "Then tell them such and such." It gives the reader a charge some may bring against the book and then answers that charge.

There has never been a suggestion on where the book originated from that is not already commented on and answered within the book itself. This is troubling for many scholars. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia,:

"There have been many theories on where the Qur'an originated from. Today no sensible person believes any of these theories. This leaves the Christian in some difficulty."

I respect Catholic scholars a lot because unlike many, they admit to what they have and don't have. Their scholars understand that what arguments they do bring to bear are really very weak and that they should come up with better arguments.

You can compare this mentality to most people who don't care one way or the other.

But again, back to your charge of demonic origin, if this book claims to have an answer to all charges, does it really? Wouldn't you know, the Book answers the charge that you brought up......

It asks the reader, Is this how Satan leads people astray? By telling them to worship none but God? Insists that they pray, do good deeds, fast for God, etc.?

And if you're content to remain with that position I ask you this:

We all know the story of Lazarus. Of how Lazarus was dead and Jesus came and asked that the stone be moved away from his grave. And the people told Jesus, that Master, he stinks by now. Yet Jesus insisted upon the stone being moved. And so they did and Jesus called for Lazarus. And Lazarus stepped out alive and well.

There were Jews who saw that miracle. When it happened, do you remember what they said? Did they proclaim, "This man is a true prophet and messenger from God!!"

No......the Bible tells us that the Jews who witnessed the miracle said, "He raised a man from the dead, it's the power of the Devil!!"

And when the Christian reads that story, he/she feels compassion and sorrow for the Jews who had a clear miracle right before their eyes of Jesus's truth. Don't they ever consider they may be making the same mistake the Jews made when they dismiss Islam so easily to Satan?

The Qur'an says,

This Quran is not such
that can be produced
By other than God
On the contrary it is
A confirmation of (revelations)
That went before it,
And a fuller explanation
Of the Book-wherein
There is no doubt-
From the Lord of All the Worlds.


Surah 10:37

Further Emile, for anyone that still believes that the Qur'an is from the devil, the Qur'an makes a challenge. It tells the reader that if she/he does not believe the book is from God, then find a mistake. Simply find one mistake within the book. God is perfect and the Book claims to be from God so naturally the book should be perfect.......

I end with this:

When thou dost read
The Quran, seek God's protection
From Satan the Rejected One

No authority has he over those
Who believe and put their trust
In Their Lord

His authority is over those
Only, who take him as patron
And who join partners with God


Surah 16:98-100

I put my Trust In God, the One and Only, for Satan has no authority over us.

Thanks!

Ray