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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: mark silvers who wrote (17226)	6/8/1998 1:41:00 PM
From: PROLIFE	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39621

IMO Mark then we would all be robots and not have free will to CHOOSE to love and serve a God who loved us first.

To: mark silvers who wrote (17226)	6/8/1998 2:16:00 PM
From: Ann Corrigan	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39621

Aha Mark, If you believe god would not punish, you've taken away the power of those who place themselves as religious authority. These so called evangelists, church hierarchy, ministers, priests, rabbis, will tell you not to question god's ways--just believe. Your question as to why god would punish if he is so loving, capable of doing all-things, knowing all things, is the one question religious leaders fear the most. Because once a human being comes to that point in their religious reasoning they've discovered truth. The fact that all religion is man made. Not gods creation at all. Best wishes, Ann

To: mark silvers who wrote (17226)	6/8/1998 2:44:00 PM
From: Sam Ferguson	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Mark I'm sure you will not consider this an answer. It is my meager way to attempt an answer. First the concept of God held by the masses is from our prior teaching which comes down thru time to us. Early man tried to find an explanation of the unknown. As the sun was known to be necessary for survival it became the concept of creator. It gave light to day and the moon gave light by night. Mans imagination created his concept of God. We each create our own concept of God today. The historicised God as a human who controls the universe was mans creation as well. God is an abstract that cannot be proved by concept. Religion created the punishment and hell as an instrument of fear to control the ignorant masses. There is no Godly punishment or reward. There is a natural law that is the cause of reward. It is very simple and needs no theologian or bible interpretator. It is stated many ways but the most common is we reap what we sow. When we violate the law we automatically punish ourself and if the law is obeyed we are rewarded. Strange as it may seem, you are your judge.

To: mark silvers who wrote (17226)	6/8/1998 9:27:00 PM
From: Father Terrence	Respond to of 39621

Mark: Here's the answer: the god envisioned by christians (and other religions) is insane. There are many reasons why, but one primary one is that since god is all-knowing, and since god always has been and always will be, then god knew before time started that when god created the angels lucifer would fall and he would have to create hell. If god didn't want to do this he never would've created Lucifer, because he KNEW what was going to happen. The real insanity comes in when an all-knowing god creates billions of beings just to suffer horribly for eternity -- as god must have known, even planned, if you follow christian "logic" (forget the "free will" argument, that's smoke) -- before the beginning of the universe god knew he would create life that, for a finite transgression, would be punished unmercifully for infinity. THAT is an insane god! (Or at least an insane concept of a god.) Father Terrence

To: mark silvers who wrote (17226)	6/8/1998 11:19:00 PM
From: Thomas Calvet	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Mark, this is an easy question to answer, but is not a simple answer to understand. God is Love. The reality is that God loves all and wishes none to perish, however, God is also Holy. Holy, in the sense that God is not only separate from His creation, but that His Holiness demands perfection. Sin cannot abide with God for He condemned sin and demands justice for the sin committed against Him. Therefore, sinful man cannot abide with God and nothing man does to make himself more "righteous, holy, spiritual, etc." will make him sinless before God, which God demands. Paradox? Yes, how can man achieve perfection, or be justified, so that he can have fellowship with his creator! The answer lies in the person of Jesus, the Messiah. God needed an atonement for sin. Jesus became the perfect sacrifice for all mankind. So God's plan is fulfilled, and all one must do to become justified, perfect without sin in His eyes, is to believe. So, back to your question. God is offering everyone a way to rehabilitation. If you reject it, you must suffer the consequences. The punishment is separation from God forever. God will not twist your arm, He wants mankind to come to Him with a pure heart, a heart that is humble, not haughty. I hope this helps, Tom