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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Andretti who wrote (17455)	6/13/1998 9:11:00 AM
From: Father Terrence	Respond to of 39621

Andretti, Nice massaging of numbers. But statistical strings can be twisted virtually any way you want to the point that I could "prove" 500 years from now that you were a leprechaun born in Madagascar with an antarctic penguin as a pet and you died as a result of a bee sting. FT

To: Andretti who wrote (17455)	6/13/1998 1:24:00 PM
From: Gregory D. John	Respond to of 39621

Andretti, Thank you for your post. It's actually very convenient to have that list of fulfilled prophesies. For what it's worth, let me try to address each prophesy. Mic. 5:2. Born in Bethlehem. "Luke was fully prepared to requisition whatever might contribute to his purpose, and in his time this would not be regarded as at all reprehensible. So because the Messiah was expected to come from Bethlehem in Judea Luke had to show that Jesus was born there [Luke 2:4], though his parent's home was in Galilee. He either did not know or disregarded the story in Matthew [Matt.2:1]. Luke was able to seize on the device of the first Roman census in Judea, reported by Josephus, which had been so hateful to the Jews, to have Joseph with his wife great with child travel from Galilee to Bethlehem, the city of David, to register. It was of no concern to Luke that this census had been taken in AD 6-7, and not in the reign of King Herod, who had died in 4 BC." Ref. The Original New Testament, Hugh J. Schonfield (1998), p.128. Isa. 40:3. Preceded by a messenger. There were enough Messianic Jews at the time to ensure that there would be a messenger. Zech. 9:9. Jesus on a colt. Jesus, being aware of scripture, would make it a point to fulfill prophesy. Ps. 41:9. Betrayal. Your 1 in 10 odds are wrong. If I am among thieves, there's a big chance I'll be robbed. John 13:18 suggests that Jesus may have picked Judas specifically for the task. Ps. 22:16. Hands and feet pierced. This looks to be a pretty good prophesy. I could go into theories of how crucifixions are really performed... but that would be nit-picking. I'm surprised you don't use all of Psalm 22 as a prophesy. Isa. 53:5. Wounded. It has to be pretty common in the ancient world that people would suffer under their enemies. Isa. 53:5 is actually making a different point; Jesus would suffer for the transgressions of the Jewish people as their messiah. Zech. 11:12. 30 pieces of silver. Both Zech. 11:12 and Matt. 26:15 refer back to Exod. 21:32. And the ox shall be stoned. Actually, one of the apparent inconsistencies of the Bible is between Matt. 27:3-5 and Acts 1:18. Isa. 50:6. Spat upon. I've already address similar prophesy. Zech. 11:13. 30 pieces of silver, revisited. See Zech. 11:12 above. Odds that the gospels are the inerrant words of God? Isa. 53:7. Jesus would be silent. See Zech. 9:9 above. Isa. 53:12. ...and he was numbered with the transgressors... Your suggestion that this passage specifically says He will be crucified with thieves is a classic example of how interpretations can be tailored to fulfill prophesy. Shame on you. ;-) I'm afraid your mathematical probabilities don't fit me very well. If you want to talk about more fulfilled prophesies, I'm all ears - I actually find the subject quite interesting; but go buffalo someone else with your numbers. In closing, I'd like to just say that modern-day Christianity is more dependent on the Resurrection of Jesus than on fulfillment of ancient Hebrew prophesies. And I certainly don't condemn the gospels for tailoring to the prophesies - such was acceptable literature at the time. And that really brings up a good point: the Bible is a book of its times and to really do it justice, IMHO, it must be interpreted with that in mind. This does not diminish its relevance to modern times... if anything it can bring the messages into clearer focus rather than trying to muddy the waters with literalism or other modern interpretations which do not take into account the origins of the Bible. For every tree there is a root. Greg