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Pastimes : Chatting With and About God the Father -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: DLL who wrote (79)	6/17/1998 11:59:00 PM
From: Roebear	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 638

Gregory and Dll, Roebear may get in trouble now! Well, here goes me and my big mouth. This is where me and a lot of other Christians part company. I do not believe in Trinity. On the other hand I do not disbelieve it. I do tend to doubt it. Why all the hedging? For one, nowhere in the Bible is it required to believe Trinity to be a christian. I believe Father, Holy Spirit and the Son the Lord Jesus. I do not understand and therefore do not accept as a belief (see 7) that they are one and the same. I am only being honest, are Trinitarians? Two, it is beyond explanation and logic to me. I do not believe that the Word is beyond explanation and logic, quite the contrary in fact. I do not believe I am required to have faith in that which is not plainly provable in the Bible, because.. Three, Strict trinitarian belief causes considerable biblical contradiction. This I avoid, even if it requires me to adjust my thinking <VBG> Four, The word Trinity does not exist in the Bible. More importantly, the few crucial passages supporting it may be later additions to translations. Not in the Codex S for ex. Now I am not a language scholar, but there is to me some reason for caution. Five, How do I understand God the Father, Christ the Son and the Holy Spirit, the Gift? For me John 17:21-23(24-26 expand it) says it real clear. If this is trinity then I am Trinitarian. Six, Since many churches differ in their doctrine, it is manifest that some of them must be incorrect. In the same way that doctrine has incurred error to some extent in various churches, I fear that the doctrine of the Trinity may have become expanded beyond its (possible) origin. Seven, I realize that I myself may be in error, may be simply inadequate or not blessed with the ability to see what others may see. Perhaps it is like describing color to a color blind person for me. In that case, when some believer explains it to me, I shall receive it gladly. As long as I am able to reconcile it with the entire Bible. So I say I do not disbelieve it, I admit the possibility, I just prefer to not to use it functionally in my life as a Christian, since I do not understand it. I hope I have not thrown a stumbling block in anyones way. If so cast it as a pebble off your path. I will politely listen to any arguments thrown my way but I caution you I have likely heard them...and they did not do the trick. To save time and I will not respond if this is the case. Good night and God Bless, Roebear

To: DLL who wrote (79)	6/18/1998 9:55:00 PM
From: Jane Hafker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 638

DLL, dear brother, there is one example that is almost perfect to me. Watchman Nee (whose other ideas rather went by me and off into space for the most part) saw the Trinity as water. God, the Father would be the water. And perfect as in Water of Life. Within the water you have vapor, and you have ice. Ice is the frozen content you can see, but melted it once again becomes vapor and rises to fall once again as rain. I believe of course the vapor you cannot usually see is the Holy Spirit. But we can feel Him, and converse with Him, and He is God. But not really. He is God's SOUL, I believe. Like our human soul, so God has one too. Jesus is the tangible that we saw with our eyes and touched with our hands, per John the Beloved. The water I can't see--it's impossible. The ice I can't touch, as it is no longer here. But the vapor I know. They are God, and the One Sits on the Throne and the other stands beside the One on the Throne, and the one on the throne forever looks to the Lamb, and the Lamb forever throws our thoughts back to the Father. How? Through the Holy Spirit only. Given by Jesus Christ and only possible through Him. And to all else on earth it is hidden and a fantasy we make up. It makes such perfect sense to me, and without it, nothing works. I especially like the parallel of water, vapor and ice. I have something interesting to share concerning John Bunyan. I hope you will find it so.