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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: DLL who wrote (17850)	6/21/1998 12:46:00 PM
From: Don Martini	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

"Self-creating intelligent Hydrogen" I wish I'd said that!! What a fine, lucid, beautiful post! If for every effect there is a cause, what caused the big bang? Or are we just to believe, you know, sorta like have faith, err accept it, because I said so. But don't go getting religious on me now because that's irrational.

To: DLL who wrote (17850)	6/21/1998 2:09:00 PM
From: Chuzzlewit	Respond to of 39621

DLL, you are betraying your ignorance of science in a big way here. Let me deal with your misstatement one at a time: Evolution is a theory, it is not fact. Wrong. There is the fact of evolution which has been repeatedly observed. Then there is the theory of evolution which is the sum of scientific though on how to explain the fact of evolution. Just as the theory of gravity is generated to explain the fact of gravity. By the way, the word theory is the strongest statement science will ever make concerning the explanation of facts. Science never proffers its explanations as immutable fact. That is a key distinction between science and religion. Many evolutionists are admitting that the needed evidence is just not there. Not there for what? The synthetic theory of evolution? Name one. The origin of life? Yes. We simply don't know enough. You dogmatically hold to a theory with no proof at all. You confuse Evolution with Natural Selection. You are so incorrect on this that it would take volumes to answer. But first, let me educate you about what the theory of evolution is (It's obvious that you have never read about the theory from those who propounded it -- that's a very dangerous practice). The theory of evolution consists of these key elements: 1. A semistable genetic material (in fact, Darwin's theory predated the discover of the gene by Gregor Mendel). 2. The generation of heritable variants -- mutations. 3. The interplay of those variants with the environment. 4. The elimination of those variants from the gene pool that are less adaptive. 5. The gradual change in the gene pool resulting in what appears to be adaptive changes. Every single element listed above has been observed both in nature and in the laboratory. If you are going to believe Evolution is responsible for Creation then you believe that everything started with Hydrogen. No. I am concerned only with the evolution of life. I will leave the question of the evolution of the solar system and and the galaxy to cosmologists. Unlike you, I only discuss thing in which I have a base of knowledge. In fact, most biochemists believe that life originated in a mixture of ammonia, methane carbon dioxide and water. The Universe is a closed system by definition. This theory clearly opposes the known Laws of Thermodynamics. Reiterating incorrect statements does not make them correct. I suggest you consult any stadard college text, or go to the local university and seek out a professor of thermodynamics and ask. Atheism is a religious system, you should have the courage to admit it and defend it if you like. Atheism is a lack of religion. It is not a positive statement -- it is a negative one. Your statement is absurd. It is consistent with such oxymorons as scientific creationism The difference between you and me is that you choose to develop a world view based on faith and either ignore evidence and reason, or twist them to suit your faith. I choose to let evidence and reason lead me to develop a world view, and choose to distrust views that require faith as their "proof".

To: DLL who wrote (17850)	6/22/1998 12:05:00 PM
From: Father Terrence	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

DLL: Chuzzlewit is correct. You are in error. "Evolution is a theory, it is not fact." The Theory of Gravitation is a theory. But gravity is a fact. It is the understanding of how it works that is the theory. Same thing with evolution. "Many evolutionists are admitting that the needed evidence is just not there." I have read the slanted opinion of some of these "evolutionists" in Christianity Today magazine. They have an axe to grind and are attempting to twist or dismiss data to defend their religious beliefs. "You dogmatically hold to a theory with no proof at all." There is ample supporting evidence. If there were strong conflicting evidence, the theory would be modified. "Universe is a closed system by definition." Not necessarily true. Although curved. it is infinitely expanding and there is some new evidence that when black holes disintegrate they spew back mammoth amount of energy and matter. Some hypotheses point to black holes as being tunnels between universes, as there is a very high probability that there is more than just the universe we are in. Perhaps even infinite universes. FT