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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Don Martini who wrote (17885)	6/22/1998 4:08:00 AM
From: Chris land	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

David in the Psalms is referring to death in its earthly aspect, in relation to this present life. Not eternity. If the resurrection is only in the last day then the thief would not have been entitled to go to paradise the day they both hung on the cross. On the mount of transfiguration, Elijah and Moses both very much alive appeared unto Jesus and His disciples. Jesus said that lazarus was sleeping but when pressed with the issue plainly said, He is dead. When Martha told Jesus that she believed lazarus would rise on the last day she wasn't acting in faith at all . She was operating out of unbelief. She did not know that Jesus was the resurrection and the life both then and forever more. He proved His point by raising lazarus as well as others from the dead. When Paul said that they have fallen asleep he was meaning the flesh part of the person has perished but they will rise with a new body at some time in the future. This doesn't have anything to do with the soul, or spirit only the flesh which in it's present sinful state is mortal, and hence died.

To: Don Martini who wrote (17885)	6/22/1998 9:50:00 AM
From: Sidney Reilly	Respond to of 39621

Don, This is a very much misunderstood subject. Literal translation of the word without spiritual understanding will lead to misunderstanding. In Matt. 17:3 it says Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus on a mountain. These two were long "dead" but there they are transfigured and very much alive. Now Paul wrote in Phil. 1:21-24 For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. But I am hard pressed form both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake. Paul is saying here that when his flesh dies he will be with Jesus, he knows that and says so. It is after Jesus's resurrection and the way to heaven is open to all believers without delay. I can think of scripture right now that seems to contradict this but it is possible with them that there is room for misunderstanding but this is very plainly stated. Now go back to Moses and Elijah being with Jesus before His resurrection. How is that possible? It is very plainly stated that they were. It is hard to understand and simple at the same time. Our lives seem to march from a beginning relentlessly to an end. We naturally think along those lines that everything is subject to the limitations of time. But God knows no such limitation. Moses and Elijah were justified by their faith (as the word tells us). That faith brought them into the kingdom of heaven through Jesus's sacrifice. That is possible because to God the fact that salvation was "going" to be accomplished is the same as it "is" accomplished to God. So as Paul said, to die is to be with the Lord. That goes for everyone who is of the faith of Abraham. For those who are not of the faith of Abraham who are the children of promise, they sleep. They are not aware of the passage of time until they are called for the great white throne judgement (Rev. 20:11-15). They are aware of nothing. I know this can be contradicted also. Bob