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To: Stewart Elliot who wrote (11102)	6/22/1998 10:45:00 AM
From: Robert Graham	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 14631

Take a look at the results of the SEC investigation that has uncovered every point that I have made in the past here at SI. You should keep yourself more informed than this as a trader. You will find the full report on the SEC web site. I think the SEC report covers more than the manipulation of the spread itself. For that matter, when the MM has proven to manipulate as a group the the establishment of a specific bid or ask at which transactions are allowed to be made on, then don't you think this is another form of price manipulation. If it isn't, what would you call it? And this manipulation has happened irregardless of the many number of MM on a stock. So take the next step to arrive at what else is possible. Talks to your security freinds including desk traders and full-time traders. I am sure they will fill you in on this. When I see the price moving up on sales you can be sure there is something amiss. Look at the NYSE and how the stocks trade there to see what happens in a "free" market system for comparison. There is quite a difference. This is one element of the trading activity of a stock that helps make it more predictable. I suggest learning how to read the tape action on stocks. You will be surprised what you see there at times. Bob Graham

To: Stewart Elliot who wrote (11102)	6/22/1998 4:02:00 PM
From: Charles Hughes	Respond to of 14631

>>>Robert, At some point your many comments about MM manipulation become a bit on the far fetched side<<< The main things wrong with your attempted rebuttal of Robert are twofold: 1. Experienced investors have all had it done to them. 2. Nasdaq, NYSE, CBOT and other dealers and MMs have been repeatedly investigated and indicted by the SEC, the FTC, and the FBI. As far as I know the government has lost none of these cases, though it has often settled short of prison time. There are NASDAQ pros in jail right now, I believe. I also recall there is a fresh case under way right now, a rather massive one. If this isn't proof that something is (constantly) going on, I don't know what would be. Not that NASDAQ has been an exception, rather more in accordance with the rule. In the big casino, there's only the house, the hustlers, and the suckers. With the hustlers and suckers sometimes changing chairs. Aside from that, having worked on trading floor computer systems, where I met a lot of brokers and traders, I can tell you my impression is that the customer is getting screwed constantly. That's where the money is. Cheers, Chaz