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Biotech / Medical : VD's Model Portfolio & Discussion Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Andreas Helke who wrote (5216)6/26/1998 11:21:00 AM
From: Rocketman  Respond to of 9719
 
Sorry Andreas, but I don't agree, except for the reasonable part. Since the short at $34 and change we have been in the money. Everybody keeps assuming that somehow the FDA is going to let ENMD jump to the head of the class and get away without doing thorough clinicals and that they will have proof in no time at all. I don't buy it. Everyone thinks that $41M in the bank is enough to develop these drugs. I don't buy it. Haven't checked the Lehman estimates quoted on the YAHOO thread myself, but they sound reasonable, and things haven't changed since this date:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Message 2581 of 2586
Reply

What is ENMD worth
asilber
Jun 26 1998
9:35AM EDT

I just read the Feb 1998 report on ENMD by Lehman Bros. It was thorough and generally well done. Their 12-month fair valuation for
the stock is $18. Fortunately, they present their math in reaching this valuation. They present each drug in the ENMD portfolio and
calculate time to launch, probability of success, appropriate discount rates, probable market size, and probable penetration of each
market.

Regarding AS/ES, the two drugs I view as differing in kind from other forms of therapy in terms of possible efficacy, they assign a
likelihood of success of 12% and a market penetration of 15%.

No one can sit in the here and now and answer what these two percentages should be. However, it can be instructive to fool around with
these numbers to try to address the great issue of what this stock is worth.

To explain why I am long the stock, I assign a likelihood of success at 50% and market penetration if successful at 90%. For this reason,
my valuation of AS/ES is 25X higher than that assigned by Lehman Bros. Keeping all their other estimates, this give a per share value to
ENMD of $241.23.

For me this exercise is instructive because it quantifies estimates inherent in all the quarreling between longs and shorts. If my estimates are
closer to correct, the stock is seriously underpriced. If Lehman Bros. estimates are closer to being correct, the stock is seriously
overpriced. Only time will tell who's closer to reality.
>>>>>>>>>>>

Lehman's predictions yield a market cap = $232M
Asilber's predictions yield a market cap = $2.99B, which would put them in the #6 spot behind Zeneca, Amgen, Genentech, Biogen & Chiron, and ahead of the rest of the entire biotech industry. I just can't buy that. They have way too much to do ahead of them. This current valuation is a bubble driven by media hype and anxious retail investors who are emotional about cancer. The fact that a huge short position exists, which are going to tend to be non-emotional about cancer traders who really understand the markets alot better than the former gives credence to the position that this market cap is way too high. Think about the biotechs in late clinicals or farther along that do not have ENMDs current cap of $372M with great big potential products. Just because they have great mouse data doesn't make the clinical process quick or certain. Just because it is a nasty emotional condition it treats doesn't justify it too, except to cause an overreaction in the markets by ill-informed newbies, many of who were burned getting in on market orders on that fateful Monday, and who are now waiting to be back in the money and just don't know how to take a loss, or I figure will be waiting many, many years.

I'm willing to bet that the interest in this wanes as time goes on and progress creeps along. This is a drug, it is slow and expensive to get to market. Given the recent product withdrawals by the FDA, the screaming over fast-track and a new FDA commissioner up for confirmation, I don't expect the FDA to run for anyone.

I would believe the Lehman numbers.

Time to take the kids to school.....

Rman



To: Andreas Helke who wrote (5216)6/26/1998 5:07:00 PM
From: Dav!d  Respond to of 9719
 
Hello Andreas,

Sorry but Entremed is at least 6 months away from any major news.
Biotech stocks are short term trades becuase of the lag time between news releases. This stock closed at $30 and change which broke the technical (short-term) support of $31 1/2 (or so). I believe it will continue to slide, escpecially when it breaks the psychological $30 level. I see support at $27 first and then the second support at $23.

NOTE: If they had any significant news to release don't you think they would have released it at the AGM? Hmmm. Great long term stock because of their Thalidamide drug and possibly positive results from the canine studies with angiostatin and endostatin.

Just my opinion,

david



To: Andreas Helke who wrote (5216)6/27/1998 3:23:00 PM
From: poodle  Respond to of 9719
 
<<I'm getting awfully tempted to buy more EntreMed at current levels to avoid the risk that it doubles again before I get to buy my desired full position.>>

Andreas, Rocketman provided his reasons, would you mind if I add a little?

Of course, it may double, but it may be 25 $ in 2 weeks also and below 20$ at the end of the year.

What kind of problems ENMD may have?
General problem, too often being forgotten, is that the main aim of medical sciences today is to cure mice. Not like scientists are crazy. Experiments with mice are usually faster and cheaper. In addition, surprisingly not too many people wish to serve as laboratory animals. So mouse is very good model. Is it an ideal MODEL? Thread's title should stimulate us to discuss MODELS, let's do it.
Imagine simple experiment first (please, don't try). Leave girl alone in the room, than open the door and allow nude mouse to run into. If your choice is correct, girl will jump on the table. Now, change the protocol. Open the door and allow nude man to enter. If you have chosen correct model... Now open the door and put money, New York Times and naked ENMD calls into the room. What may happen?

As you may see, mouse and human are really different, but that difference may be forgotten when it comes to the stock. Mouse and human not only look a little different, but molecules of their bodies could be also very different. Some basic molecules are very similar, as well as some basic metabolic pathways. But how far this similarity may go? And that's seems to be the major problem: drugs designed to cure mice may or may not cure people. I am not sure what the probability is. 12 % seems to be too exact for such case, but 10-20 seems to be reasonable guess. Has anyone numbers of drugs shown to be effective for mice but ineffective for people?

As an example, you may read piece from Science at the end of this post:
Message 4582038

<<
Then, in an object lesson in the dangers of hyping cancer therapies, hopes--and stock values--shriveled. Although Levy's antibody worked, the effects of other antibodies in humans didn't match those in mice, and unexpected toxicity even killed patients, bringing clinical trials to an abrupt halt. Antibodies vanished from page one, and many firms abandoned them.>>

as well as here:
207.121.187.155
13) Are there compounds that had promising results in mice but proved
less successful in treating human cancers?
Yes, many. A prime example is interleukin-2. In the 1980s, this drug was
very successful in treating tumors in mice. But subsequent studies in
people showed that interleukin 2 caused significant side effects, such as
severe drops in blood pressure and the leaking of fluid from blood
vessels. These difficulties in people were not predicted based on the
mouse studies. A large number of chemotherapy drugs have much
greater effectiveness against mouse tumors than against human cancers. >>

As usual,there are some technical questions. For example, 0.2 ml of endostatin was used per 20g of body weight, subcutaneous. Let's say for 80 kg man:

0.02 kg - 0.2 ml
80 kg - X ml

X=800 ml, (Company may add, more than two can's of Coke) seems to be a little too much for subcutaneous injection. Probably 80 times more concentrated solution may be used, but is it stable, what would be the reaction, including local, to such concentration? Has been such solution ever tested, even on mice? Any technical question may be potentially solved, but it takes time. If ENMD can produce enough protein in yeasts, that's good. The problem, however, is: is this protein as "safe" and effective as from E. coli? Has AS/ES proteins produced from yeasts ever been used even for mice treatment? Are preparation methods the same as described before?
Also purification of ES/AS should be done extremely well. Given an amount of protein to be injected and frequency of injections, any contamination from producent (E. coli or yeasts) may provoke vigorous immune response.

<<I fear that a successful EntreMed will be bad for the business and particularly for the stock prices
of the other cancer biotechs in my portfolio and want to be prepared for this possibility with a
big enough EntreMed position to offset the potential losses.>>

WS reaction, as far as I could see, was very different from that you are expecting. Look at Boston Sciences, for example. WS is usually searching for analogy, reasonable or not. Again, ES/AS are not the first angiostatics, and definitely not the last. Last time I checked, 36 companies worked on angiostatics projects, not to mention huge amount of research labs. An important thing to remember also is that proteins are not necessarily the best drugs. Problems with production, purification, storage and administration are usually significant. "Small molecules" may be better.

<<I checked EntreMeds short position and found that it was about 1/4 of the float. Does anybody
know if this is enough for a decent short squeeze?>>

If they cure cancer, 10 shares short will generate sq. If they can't, than stock price will go to cash, and I do not expect a lot of cash left at that moment. This stock is gamble, or even worse. You can't estimate your risk/reward ratio.
All these publicly available numbers about short positions and float are well outdated and not always correct. Average entry point may be also important.

Finally, I would be extremely careful with all information from SI, especially posted on ENMD thread for last 2 months:too many serious mistakes, let's hope they were not intentional. It's appl. to this post also.

Have a nice weekend.