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Technology Stocks : How high will Microsoft fly? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hal Rubel who wrote (8706)	6/27/1998 2:26:00 AM
From: miraje	Respond to of 74651

HR, Since this is not the appropriate forum to engage in lengthy political discourse, I won't clutter up the thread with a response to your post. If I have time tomorrow, I'll start a new thread in the Coffee Shop where we can discuss Libertarian principles in depth. There's a lot more to it than the issue of MSFT and anti-trust. Definitely not a "one-trick pony". Does going long on Microsoft shares automatically make one a raging Libertarian? No, but it helps. :-) Regards, JB

To: Hal Rubel who wrote (8706)	6/27/1998 2:52:00 AM
From: Don Hurst	Respond to of 74651

OT..... Hal, I was following the IBM full text thread and just happened to read your note to the Libertarian. Very, very impressive; I am glad I stayed up and had the opportunity to read it. Regards, Don

To: Hal Rubel who wrote (8706)	6/27/1998 2:22:00 PM
From: Daniel W. Koehler	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 74651

Hal << But as a political party that's so fuzzy on the specifics of critical issues and so completely unprepared to act decisively in the public interest as needed, Libertarians may not be relevant enough to attain public office, thus eventually rendering themselves extinct.>> okay....libertarianism 101 1. Self government. You own your "own" body. You have an absolute property right in your own personage. No sovereign can tell you what you can do with it - in the bedroom in, what you put into it . 2. Voluntarism. Force or coercion of individuals pursuing and protecting their legitimate self interest is anathema. 3. Limited Government. Government is a necessary evil strictly limited to defense of our shores, and administering the system of settling disputes between individual (i.e., the criminal justice and tort system.) Government is neutral in matters of individual choice - national public policy has no meaning in this system. Choices are left to individuals voting in the market to determine the outcomes or at the local level to set rules governing limits on behavior . The more issues are pushed down to the local levels, the more opportunity to have different solutions apropos to the community in question. This local level principle is particularly key, given the Federal "monopoly" that currently limits individual choice everywhere. In the political arena, libertarian ideas promote the concept of "many local solutions" - this is similar to the idea of "atomistic competition" in economics. Plus, if you don't approve of your local solution, you are free to move elsewhere. Thus, if individuals voting in the market place choose to give a a market majority to one product, government is not allowed to interdict the will of the people in exercising their choice. For, to do so would violate the libertarian principle in the primacy of individual choice. Libertarians take it as an axiom that markets reflect individual choices and will naturally develop alternative products if one product becomes overpriced or pernicious. And as you know, axioms are not subject to debate. They are givens; most arguments center on people unable to accept each other's axioms. That's what we have here, Hal. Libertarians take it as axiomatic that markets work best when left alone. You, however, believe that governments actually know what is better for individuals that they do. You believe that the masses are dumb asses; we feel that the dumb asses are in government. You are put in the unenviable position of have to defend the status quo. If Microsoft has won 90% of the PC operating system market, it is because individuals perceive it to be in their self-interest. Isn't that what we want - regnat populi? Or should the state rule us? I'll trust the legacy of Thomas Jefferson over that of William Jefferson (Clinton) on that one. Ciao, Daniel

To: Hal Rubel who wrote (8706)	6/27/1998 3:43:00 PM
From: freeus	Respond to of 74651

The answer to your question is no. And the bottom line of Libertarianism is: Do you really want to live under force and coercion? Freeus

To: Hal Rubel who wrote (8706)	6/27/1998 8:04:00 PM
From: Andy Thomas	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74651

Hi Hal, >>Does going long on Microsoft shares automatically make one a raging Libertarian? << If one were to go by the makeup of the people within the company, the perception might be mixed. There are a lot of people there who don't like the government much - probably because they see the government for what it is - then there are the ones who are quite socialistic in their outlook. There are loyalists and mercenaries. There is quite a bit of smug self-satisfaction in this small part of the world. I don't know if it's the weather or what, but the Seattle area which MSFT hails from could hardly be described as "libertarian." The area has more of a "non sexual liberal" flavor... statism without sex.... how boring. MSFT probably has the most "libertarians" per capita of all of the local companies. On the whole though, I think the people at MSFT are either mercenary, vascillating, or dedicated minions of the order of Bill. Also, Gates has given money to the NEA... hardly libertarian... a part owner of the Mariners at MSFT did nothing while the state legislature rammed a baseball stadium - one which had been voted down by the public - down our throats. Another guy who was a founder of MSFT practically bought an election for a football stadium... hell... I'm such a football fan that if the Seahawks win a super bowl, I can forgive him that... <g> In any case these are hardly the actions of "libertarians," in my opinion. They're asking for names for the new football stadium... i thought: Monopolist Stadium with the big slogan on the side: "Make the Other Guy Pay" FWIW Andy