I guess I will post this and I am sure Robert and Emile will respond in short order. I do not like when an organized Religion deems to hold 100% of the total truth because they deem to interpret the Bible the way they see fit. Christianity is nothing more than hundreds of denominations all with their own interpretations and views. Some Christians support Israel and a growing number is labeling Israel a people who worship satan and you know all the rest. You and Emile have accused me of preaching some sort of false doctrine. First of all I am not a teacher of anything much less a preacher God forbid. I have my beliefs just as you and Emile. I wish for Jews to accept Jesus as the Messiah as much as any true Christian. What I have a problem with is lowering a Jew as something to be called an Anti-Christ or worshiping satan. This is not limited to a Jew with your words but a whole nation, not to mention some prominent Jewish people who have contributed their lives to better the world we live in. To show love for your fellow man while sharing your beliefs will do more good than to label him as a satan worshipper or his homeland the same, that is only common sense. I think some here do not even know the meaning of forgiveness. The problem I have with you Robert and Emile is that you look down on everything that is remotely associated with Jewish anything from using the word Yeshua, to accepting Jesus by calling themselves Messianic Jews. Emile made it very clear that once a Jew accepts Jesus he must call himself a Christian that to me is insane and very shallow. To make matters worse if a Jew accepts Jesus he must stop observing all of the Jewish holidays Hmmmmmm....... to me that is being disrespectful and foolish, for it plays no role to ones salvation once Jesus is accepted in ones life. I think if some heard some Jewish songs you would see the life that rings out when they are sung it truly has a uplifting melody, not to mention its spiritual uplifting, I am sure DLL is familiar with what I am saying. I have no problem with a Christian who loves and respects others, I also have no problem if a Jew wishes to call himself a Christian, but I do have a problem with a person who claims to be a Christian that belittles or categorizes a group of people like Jews to be somehow evil and satanic in nature, you do not live or sleep with them nor do you have any clue to their thoughts or convictions. For myself you and Emile are the False Christ's the Bible speaks of. Both you and Emile Judge, both you and Emile claim to be Jews, and both you and Emile claim to be Israel. The Bible says there will be many False Christ's and I believe he is referring to people who call themselves Christians and look to steal from the Jews their Nationality, the promise, and the very being of who and what they are.
23: Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. (Christian or anyone who professes to say that they have accepted Christ and his spirit and truth lives in them)
24: For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
1: Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2: For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Gods judgment will be if we attain eternal life with him or void of him. To say your grandmother that died in the Holocaust is now in hell is inexcusable and a clear example of laying down Judgement, a person who claims to be a Christian will most likely lose all respect from a Jew as well as regressing away from anything to do with Jesus, ask any psychologist and they will probably give you many reasons why. I firmly believe that people who do this type of teaching will themselves be Judged by the manner that they judged others thus turning them away from the truth.
22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Do I feel the current state of Israel is important to God? Yes I do
Do I feel the current Israel is the Christian people? no I do not.
Do I feel Christians (Gentiles) are Jews? no I do not
Israel and Jews are the same Israel and Jews that was depicted in the Old Testament scriptures as well as the new. That is not to say that a Christian like DLL who loves the Jews will be grafted into the promise that God made with Israel he surly will and will be the same as any other Jew when he is with the Lord. Those that reject Israel I feel will be cast out for one cannot be grafted into the root if they reject it. The following is two chapters in the Old Testament, and one Chapter in the New Testament both talk about the return of the Messiah but you will find they both are referring to the same time period and are meant for Jews in the Old and True Christians in the New I feel you should take the time to read it with an open heart;
Old Testament;
Joel 2:1: Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
2: A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
3: A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
4: The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
5: Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
6: Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
7: They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
8: Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.
9: They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
10: The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
11: And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
12: Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:
13: And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.
14: Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
15: Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly:
16: Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.
17: Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God?
18: Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people.
19: Yea, the LORD will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen:
20: But I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things.
21: Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for the LORD will do great things.
22: Be not afraid, ye beasts of the field: for the pastures of the wilderness do spring, for the tree beareth her fruit, the fig tree and the vine do yield their strength.
23: Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
24: And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil.
25: And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.
26: And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.
27: And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
28: And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30: And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
Old Testament
Joel 3:1: For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
2: I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
3: And they have cast lots for my people; and have given a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink.
4: Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompence me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head;
5: Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my goodly pleasant things:
6: The children also of Judah and the children of Jerusalem have ye sold unto the Grecians, that ye might remove them far from their border.
7: Behold, I will raise them out of the place whither ye have sold them, and will return your recompence upon your own head:
8: And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the LORD hath spoken it.
9: Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
10: Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
11: Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.
12: Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
13: Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
14: Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15: The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16: The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
17: So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.
18: And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.
19: Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.
20: But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.
21: For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion.
New Testament;
Mark 13:1: And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
2: And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3: And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
4: Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?
5: And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:
6: For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
7: And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
8: For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
9: But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
10: And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
11: But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
12: Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
13: And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14: But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
15: And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
16: And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
17: But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
18: And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
19: For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
20: And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
21: And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22: For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23: But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
24: But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25: And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26: And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27: And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
28: Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
29: So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
30: Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
31: Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
32: But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33: Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34: For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35: Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37: And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
Now take a look at the similarity of this section of the verses in the Old Testament and the New Testament;
Old Testament;
10: The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
11: And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great:
Old Testament;
15: The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16: The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
New Testament;
24: But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25: And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26: And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
The description is pretty similar if not exact.......... The Old Testament uses the term Lord while the New Testament uses the Son of man. You can ask any Jew what to look for when the Messiah comes and they will tell you they are looking for a Redeemer with great power and glory.
26: And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
The Jews and believers in Christ are both looking for the same Redeemer, the lesson here is those who Bless Israel will be blessed those that curse Israel ................. A Jew is no better than any other, it comes down to what and who God is. The point is God does the Judging. A true believer in Christ becomes a NON ISSUE since they will be the same when they are grafted into the tree of eternal life.
We agree on one important factor that Jesus shed his blood for all of us if we wish to accept it, why not concentrate on that and caring for others without the demoralizing of others.
Alan
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