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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Raymond James Norris who wrote (18534)	6/28/1998 10:38:00 PM
From: IN_GOD_I_TRUST	Respond to of 39621

I'll substantiate with one verse which implies Jesus saying he's God. I only chose this one for now for I have a lack of time to search for more. If you do want more, I will continue searching. Any one else reading can help me too if they wish. One that I could find fast: Matthew 9:2-3 2 And behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, be of good cheer; thy sins are forgiven. 3 And behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth. Only God forgives sin. Jesus did! That's why you had the reaction in Matthew 9:3. How can this man forgive sins? Only God forgives sin! What was Jesus saying? Raymond fill in the blank. Now to your belief: "Muslims believe Jesus Christ is an elite Messenger from God. " Is a messenger from God a prophet? The bible says a prophet must be 100% accurate in regard to his prophecies. I don't know the verses off hand. but it's in there. If you want them, I'll get them. So he needs to be 100% accurate. Jesus says he's God (and I have that proof above), so if you believe he is a prophet, and he says he is God, then it must be true. Also, if you don't classify a messenger of God a prophet, and a messanger from God's message (the one in which he gets from God) does not have to be 100% accurate, how do you know if what he says from God is true or not true? And this is a beauty, "A very tricky type of fallacy in logic. Unfortunately for you, I'm aware of its use." What, the question, if Jesus is God or not? That question is a tricky type of fallacy in logic, that is, in it's the way it is asked. Stop it! Don't insult me or anyone else either. Either the answer is yes or no. Nothing inherent is in this question, like that you already assume something (like you're wife beating example....interesting you use that one). Examine the question again..... No trick in it. Maybe this statement of yours goes to the heart of your disbelief in the Bible. Just a thought.... "So to ask me that I must answer, "Neither." Muslims do not believe that Jesus (Pbuh) was God." Do you believe Jesus is God? You, not Muslims. Please be careful when you answer. (I don't want to assume because you are Muslim, you do not believe Jesus is God. You tend to catch me with things like this, so that's why I am asking again....to be clear on the questions answer). Pray about it before you answer it! I'll close for now! God Bless You! Steve

To: Raymond James Norris who wrote (18534)	6/30/1998 9:17:00 PM
From: IN_GOD_I_TRUST	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

"If we only look at Jesus' (Pbuh) words, we cannot find evidence that he claimed explicity that he was God." O.K., here are some proofs that might be implicit, but should be clear to you that Jesus is God: John 12:44 44 And Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. If you believe in Jesus, you believe in the Father. John 14:1 1 Let not your heart be troubled: believe in God, believe also in me. Believe in God, and you believe in Jesus. John 5:18-19 18 For this cause therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only brake the sabbath, but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God. 19 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father doing: for what things soever he doeth, these the Son also doeth in like manner. Jews thought Jesus was saying he was equal with God. Jesus reiterates whatever you see the Father do, he does in a like manner. God is perfect, a messenger of God is not. A messenger of God can not do in a like manner what God the father does. Jesus therefore must be saying he is God. Jews of the time obviously thought so! John 8:58 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am". "I am" - ring a bell. I'll substantiate this is God's established name if needed. Also, is a messenger of God existent before Abraham? Was Muhammad existent before Abraham? John 17:5 5 And now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Jesus says he had glory with the Father before the world was. Could he just be a messenger of God? Again, was Muhammad around before the world was? Only had to scan a couple of books for these. Want more, I'm sure I could bombard you with them. Implicit or explicit these versus are clear! ... Steve