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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Grainne who wrote (23168)	7/1/1998 10:38:00 PM
From: Dwight E. Karlsen	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Christine, okay you don't have title to any land, but you're still living on Indian land. I have nothing against "saying sorry". Except it seems rather hollow and self-serving when "sorry" is said with nothing done. The truth is Christine, and this is what I'm trying to tell you, is that America clearly is not really sorry for what was done. People may be sorry for the effects on the Native American culture, and it's fine to be sorry about that. It's what the military might term "collateral damage". To me, all this manifest destiny stuff is very immoral. Like I say, you're still now living on Indian land, just like the rest of us. Your feelings on the matter don't personally absolve you of one whit of guilt, although I suspect you do think your "feelings" should count for some kind of payment for allowing you to live on Indian land. As a user of stolen land, you're just as guilty as everyone else, your "feelings" notwithstanding. Nor does it count that you "hope" to move "back to Europe". Are you saying you were born in Europe, but moved here to the US afterwords? I at least was born here, and my parents were also born here and lived here their whole life, and I therefore consider myself to be, yes, as "Native American" as it's possible for a person in the twentieth century to be. A couple of my ancestors 2 generations ago were not born in America, and some of my ancestoros 3 generations ago were born in the US. Again, going back to the issue of saying we are sorry: I'm not opposed to it in any way. I simply believe that in the case of the American Indians, it's not going to materially change a thing. Even if we apologise, Christine, it still won't make you any less guilty of using stolen property, I hope you realize that. Apologizing lets anger start turning to sadness, and then some kind of closure. And I have nothing against "closure". But again, simply saying sorry isn't going to make everything all better. Will you still be "hoping" to move back to Europe, if the US issues a formal apology to the American Indians for breaking all those treaties? How long have you been "hoping to move back to Europe"?

To: Grainne who wrote (23168)	7/1/1998 11:03:00 PM
From: Dwight E. Karlsen	Respond to of 108807

To expand on what I'm saying on issuing an apology to the American Indians: Why are we focusing so much on feelings, rather than meaningful change of treatment? Clearly the European settlers in the US have focused successfuly on improving their own lot in life, while still to this day, it's sad to drive through a reservation. The US will spend multiple millions and billions of dollars on paying researchers to study any and everything, and meanwhile the morale and living conditions on reservations continues to stagnate. "We're sorry. We've done all we can. We apologise. Now the American Indians can do the closure thing, and we get back to our coffee cafes, our skyscraper office buildings, our new homes, new boats, our new computers, "our" Disney theme parks, health clubs, etc. I'm so happy we apogized. I feel so good about that. Now I can get back to enjoying life to the fullest in the good ol' USA."